Religion Discussion

[AngelinaCatHub]

Whether Christian or Atheist, you cannot deny this person's talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=dxCRIF0m79w&feature=related

[AngelinaCatHub]

I would disagree with your wordism here 'Hub.

The only true FAITH is between the individual's heart and his Maker.

God and religion are distinct, separate and often conflicting concepts.

But you did not understand my intended meaning. A TRUE religion, IS between you and your Maker (God).

Addendum: Yes Faith and religion is separate, but what is the true religion? Between you and God.

[frogger]

The only true Religion is between the individual's heart and his Maker.

I would disagree with your wordism here 'Hub.

The only true FAITH is between the individual's heart and his Maker.

God and religion are distinct, separate and often conflicting concepts.

[AngelinaCatHub]

"God and the Spider"
During World War II, a US marine was separated from his unit on a Pacific island. The fighting had been intense, and in the smoke and the crossfire he had lost touch with his comrades. Alone in the jungle, he could hear enemy soldiers coming in his direction. Scrambling for cover, he found his way up a high ridge to several small caves in the rock. Quickly he crawled inside one of the caves. Although
safe for the moment, he realized that once the enemy soldiers looking for him swept up the ridge, they would quickly search all the caves and he would be killed.
As he waited, he prayed, "Lord, if it be your will, please protect me. Whatever your will though, I love you and trust you. Amen." After praying, he lay quietly listening to the enemy begin to draw
close; he thought, "Well, I guess the Lord isn't going to help me out of this one."
Then he saw a spider begin to build a web over the front of his cave. As he watched, listening to the enemy searching for him all the while, the spider layered strand after strand of web across the opening of the cave. "Hah, he thought. "What I need is a brick wall and what the Lord has sent me is a spider web. God does have a sense of humor.
As the enemy drew closer he watched from the darkness of his hideout and could see them searching one cave after another. As they came to his, he got ready to make his last stand. To his amazement, however, after glancing in the direction of his cave, they moved on. Suddenly, he realized that with the spider web over the entrance, his cave looked as if no one had entered for quite a while. "Lord, forgive me," prayed the young man. "I had forgotten that in you a spider's web is stronger than a brick wall."
We all face times of great trouble. When we do, it is so easy to forget the victories that God would work in our lives, sometimes in the most surprising ways. As the great leader, Nehemiah, reminded the people of Israel when they faced the task of rebuilding Jerusalem, "In God we will have success" [Nehemiah 2:20]
Remember: Whatever is happening in your life, with God, a mere spider's web can become a brick wall of protection. Believe He is with you always. Just speak His name through Jesus His son, and you will see His great power and love for you.

http://lovelightsministries.org/God%20&%20the%20Spider.htm

[jacko]

You may want to think that over. A link for worldwide crime stats don't paint a rosy picture for peace loving Christians.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

[QUOTE=AngelinaCatHub;583649]I have to agree that this particular discussion is without merit. The only true Religion is between the individual's heart and his Maker. The Bible can be translated in many ways due to many languages. I do agree that Islam is a bloody Religion but by the Christian the Muslims took a beating during the crusades.

[GoingDown]

All I am saying is that there does seem to be some difference in the way the various religions react to our freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

While one seems to violently riot and kill people over cartoons and videos, the others use their words to condemn what they don't like. Is there a difference there? I think so.

This "Piss Christ" is back. I wonder if the Christians will riot and kill people over it?

.................................................. ....................................

“Piss Christ,” once branded as a “deplorable, despicable display of vulgarity,” will be displayed at the Edward Tyler Nahem Gallery in Manhattan on Thursday. The artwork features a “photograph of the crucifix submerged in the artist’s urine.”

The artwork debuted in 1989 and was funded through prize money provided by the National Endowment for the Arts. The art gallery hosting the retrospective salute to Andres Serrano is privately owned."

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/wh-silent-over-demands-to-denounce-piss-christ-artwork.html

[AngelinaCatHub]

I have to agree that this particular discussion is without merit. The only true Religion is between the individual's heart and his Maker. The Bible can be translated in many ways due to many languages. I do agree that Islam is a bloody Religion but by the Christian the Muslims took a beating during the crusades.

In the KJV

Matthew 5:43-48
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. ...

I do request that all make some effort at respect for all religion whether you believe in any or not. God is spell G o d, and not god. The Bible not bible. Qur'an or Koran is also respectfully capitalized. It is only respectful to do so with any religion.

Here is how mistranslations could be caused: There was no punctuation in many translations. Here is the same verse with comma added or moved. "I say to you, this day you will be with me in Paradise" This implies that the thief would be with the Lord in Paradise then.

"I say to you this day, you will be with me in Paradise" This implies that ["I'M TELLING YOU TODAY "] [You will {eventually} be in Paradise]. For the sake of a comma, two different meanings.

Here is a classic instructors model of how punctuation can make a big difference:

First statement is: that that is is that that is not is not is not that it

Second statement with punctuation make these words mean something: That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is not that it?

'Hub

[jacko]

Do we have freedom of religion? There are certain Christians who want to impose their god in the a public school classroom which is suppose to be neutral ground. Religion being used to impose vagina laws in some states. While deadly riots is not the norm in this country, but violence is everywhere and daily in the tune of tens of thousands of murders, rapes, and property crime perpetuated by Christians.

I just want what the U.S. Constitution gives us-- the freedom of speech, and the freedom of religion. We should be able to say what we feel like saying, believe what we want to believe, or not believe in the case of skeptics like me.

Why don't these people make their own YouTube video and tell us what they believe and why the other video was so wrong, in their opinion? Nothing wrong with expressing their own opinions about what was so wrong with the video.

That would make a lot more sense to me than rioting, threatening, intimidating, and killing people.

[TheBajan]

GoingDown,

In my opinion, this sort of discussion can only be productive if there is a defined goal at the end of it between the people having the discussion. If the point is only to put your own opinion out there and attempt to refute or discredit the beliefs of others because they don't line up with your own... it's non-productive and quite frankly, arrogant. On the other hand, if individuals have a defined goal they are trying to achieve through such discussions, and they are able to respect each others views in the effort to achieve that goal, there is some basis for polite debate. I have not seen this as a part of this particular thread. That's okay though. This thread wasn't created to reach a goal but merely to discuss religion. As long as everyone participating is okay with that then it serves the purpose intended (albeit a non-productive purpose).

Cheers,
The Bajan

[GoingDown]

What would make it more productive, in your opinion?

[TheBajan]

I just read this entire thread. Very interesting but nothing really new. Years ago I was a part of a Christian debate forum and I left because I realized that no one really was interested in learning anything. Everyone there (myself included) was set in our beliefs and all the debating in the world wasn't going to change anyone's opinions so it all seemed pretty pointless to me. BTW, when I say it was a Christian debate group, it's a bit misleading. It was more properly described as a group of individuals debating religious issues (mostly of the Christian faith). There's always going to be an opposing argument to any belief system, quote, or interpretation thereof.

Faith and religion are not one and the same. All of us have faith. Whether it be in a higher power or not, it can be argued that we all have faith (a belief system) in something or someone, even if it's just in our selves. We all hold on to our beliefs tightly. Not everyone is religious. Even MANY of those who proclaim a faith in God are not a part of any religious institution.

There are hypocrites everywhere.... among all religions and also among agnostics, atheists, etc. Every one of us who has ever lied, betrayed a friend, or betrayed our own moral values has been a hypocrite at some point. It's fun to point fingers because it validates our own selves but it's shallow and non-productive.

Over and over I hear people of faith (not necessarily just Christian) are intolerant, weak-minded, robots unable to think for themselves and simply fall into blindly following a belief system because they have been told to. They are accused of "pushing" their beliefs on others and told they have no place in the public arena. The irony of this is ALMOST laughable. I have been fortunate to know many highly intelligent, independent thinkers of many faiths. Many people of faith are content to simply live their beliefs without intruding on the lives of others. Of course there are those exceptions. However, the same can be said about people who proclaim no faith also. The truth is that intolerance, weak-mindedness, and the inability to think for oneself runs rampant among all groups of people including those who proclaim themselves too enlightened to believe in a higher power. There will always be good and bad in every one of us.

A very interesting thread but not at all productive. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents.

The Bajan

[GoingDown]

The solution is simply:

Ban religion in public. Every religion. Problem solved. Period.

I just want what the U.S. Constitution gives us-- the freedom of speech, and the freedom of religion. We should be able to say what we feel like saying, believe what we want to believe, or not believe in the case of skeptics like me.

Why don't these people make their own YouTube video and tell us what they believe and why the other video was so wrong, in their opinion? Nothing wrong with expressing their own opinions about what was so wrong with the video.

That would make a lot more sense to me than rioting, threatening, intimidating, and killing people.

[GoingDown]

Yes, it is happening in Western countries as well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOsEScxzqck

If you look closely, you will see them holding signs which talk about beheading people who insult Islam.

Not good, in my opinion.

I wouldn't want to live near these kinds of people. They're scary.

[jacko]

It wasn't a personal attack. Are the Muslims rioting or demonstrating in the Western countries? Key difference. Have yet to see rioting in this country. I wonder why. Oh, the Christians in this country have been imposing their values on the rest of us, such as Vagina laws in VA, coercing schools to display the 10 Commandments along with imposing the bible, Voter repression laws etc..Its kind of funny when you mention Muslim suppression of women which happens. Saudi Arabia is the worst of all, but a beacon of hope is happening with women asserting their right. Will happen one day. Pakistan, overall is a secular country, but the minority extremists are the loudest. Iraq under Saddam was liberal towards women issues. Women in Iraq until the invasion could do what they please. Now they are being persecuted to cover up and stay home.

Its ironic, we have subtle coercing on the sex roles in this country. Paul Ryan's spouse had a promising legal career which she ended when they had a family. What a waste of talent.

Now, let's not let this devolve into personal attacks against me. Thank you.

The Muslims are also rioting in London, England, and Sydney, Australia. Are those countries without hope, as you describe them?

They're rioting in Indonesia as well. So much for their tolerance.

The rise of Islam in western countries such as England and Australia is the most troubling to me. If they want to impose their will upon the masses in their own countries, fine, but when they come to our countries and start throwing a violent temper tantrum because they don't get their way, that's quite a different story.

Which system would you rather live under? The western system which pretty much lets people do whatever they want to do and believe whatever they want to believe (or not believe in the case of skeptics like me), within the bounds of reason, or one that imposes its will upon the masses under penalty of death?

What surprises me the most is that women's groups such as N.O.W., in this country are pretty much silent about Islam. They're treated like second-class citizens (and in some cases like a man's personal property) in Saudi Arabia (where Islam was founded, remember?), and most of the middle eastern countries, and yet, not a peep out of N.O.W. Why is that?

"All women, regardless of age, are required to have a male guardian. Women cannot vote or be elected to high political positions. Saudi Arabia prohibits women from driving. All females must have a male guardian, typically a father or husband. The guardian has duties to, and rights over, the woman in many aspects of civic life. Depending on the guardian, women may need their guardian's permission for: marriage and divorce; travel, if under 45; education; employment; opening a bank account; elective surgery, particularly when sexual in nature."

[IBroke]

The solution is simply:

Ban religion in public. Every religion. Problem solved. Period.