What do you guys think? War in Georgia the start of WW3?

[BankruptPinoy]

SPECIAL REPORT: Kuwait Readying for War in Gulf?

http://www.metimes.com/International/2008/08/11/special_report_kuwait_readying_for_war_in_gulf/7724/

Leading the U.S. and British naval battle groups, and a French hunter-killer submarine, headed for the Gulf is the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt (shown here) with its 80-plus combat planes.

excerpt below:

This deployment is the largest naval task force from the United States and allied countries to assemble in the strategic waters of the Persian Gulf since the two Gulf wars.


The object of the naval deployment would be to enforce an eventual blockade on Iran, if as expected by many observers, current negotiations with the Islamic republic over its insistence to pursue enrichment of uranium, allowing it, eventually, to produce nuclear weapons yields no results.


Adding to the volatility is the presence of a major Russian navy deployment affected earlier this year to the eastern Mediterranean comprising the jewel of the Russian fleet, the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov with approximately 50 Su-33 warplanes that have the capacity for mid-air refueling. This means the Russian warplanes could reach the Gulf from the Mediterranean, a distance of some 850 miles and would be forced to fly over Syria (not a problem) but Iraq as well, where the skies are controlled by the U.S. military, and the guided missile heavy cruiser Moskva. The Russian task force is believed to be composed of no less than a dozen warships as well as several submarines.


However, Russia is unlikely to get involved in a military showdown in the Persian Gulf, particularly at this time when it is engaged in a major confrontation with the Republic of Georgia in South Ossetia.

[kornellred]

Remember the term "mutually assured destruction"? It still holds true today, even though some measure of nuclear disarmament has occurred amongst the superpowers.
The drama in Georgia is nothing but a minor skirmish.
Israel will NEVER allow Iran to develop nuclear capability.
Iraq is just business as usual.
China is mostly full of bok-choi and skinny little gymnasts.
Muslim world domination is the worst sort of pipe dream.

If World War III actually breaks out, there will be no one left to know it actually occurred.

A majority of godless scientists are of the opinion that the universe began by way of an unimaginably colossal explosion they (with wry humor) refer to as the "big bang".

Perhaps our reality has already undergone thermonuclear destruction and unfolding events are just the evidence of it.

Even if humanity comes to its' senses and we live another 10,000 years in peace, we are still doomed.

[banca rotta]

Remember the term "mutually assured destruction"? It still holds true today, even though some measure of nuclear disarmament has occurred amongst the superpowers.
The drama in Georgia is nothing but a minor skirmish.
Israel will NEVER allow Iran to develop nuclear capability.
Iraq is just business as usual.
China is mostly full of bok-choi and skinny little gymnasts.
Muslim world domination is the worst sort of pipe dream. Funny!LOL



Even if humanity comes to its' senses and we live another 10,000 years in peace, we are still doomed.

Why are we "still doomed" if we survive another 10k and come to our senses?

[kornellred]

We are still doomed because everything is temporary and will disappear. The method of disappearance is irrelevant, as is the amount of time it takes.

"Doomed" is just an uncomfortable word for "things will not be the way you would choose".

[JRScott]

I think its quite likely that this might be the opening of WWIII. Russias continued drive into Georgia, the throwing away of its cease fire agreement so quickly shows that it has little interest in peace. It is counting on Western Europe doing nothing for fear of losing their gas/oil. It also counts on the United States to do little other than talk for fear of losing its ability to reach the international space station.

Here's what folks need to do.

1. United States needs to approach the private space industry and see if they can get an orbital craft sooner from them. (VSS Enterprise is suppose to start trial runs later this year it is a suborbital craft but perhaps it could be modified to serve the function NASA needs). I've always loved space exploration and we might do better turning more to the private sector than to just maintain a government monopoly.

2. Europe should take advantage of the storminess of the Baltic and North Seas, build wave power plants (where you harness the power of the sea's waves to generate electricity.). This would help them replace the power they'd lose from Russia.

3. The United States should likewise develop its own natural gas and oil reserves, as well as invest in solar, wind and wave plants to help it become energy independent and perhaps even help Western Europe.

[Reddrocket07]

I am trying to follow this nonsense with Georgia and Russia, but its hard to pinpoint anything in an article. Is Russia simply trying to reapproriate Georgia since it split from them? If thats true, put it into comparrison with our own nation. Would our government simply allow California, Texas, Florida, or some other state to scede from the states and form their own nation? Sorry for the ignorance in this issue, but it is confusing to me.

As for the start of WWIII...hasnt it already begun? We are spread thin enough in Iraq and Afghanistan, we are worried about Iran, Korea, and possibly Cuba. Now the world has this nonsense in it as well. I think the US should sit back and allow the United Nations to make a decision in this regard, but since when has the UN been effective since its formation. World Public Opinion for the US is at an all time low. Perhaps we should concentrate more on what is happening in our own borders first?

[MomIcantFindmy]

I agree Redrocket and to add maybe with World Public Opinion at an all time low it is time we sit this one out and let some one else handle this...I am tired of bing the "world police".

[JRScott]

Yes Red, Russia is trying to reform the USSR.

I think Putin is taking the same route Hitler did in the 30s. He's starting with his smaller neighbors. I would expect a Baltic state invasion once they take Georgia. They will eventually need the Ukraine due to its resources.

We are spread to thin.

This is one scenario I see.

1. Russia takes Georgia

2. We accelerate pull out of Iraq shifting forces to Western and Eastern Europe in a buildup similar to the cold war. Our forces most likely would be deployed to NATO nations, and possibly Ukraine.

3. Russia invades the Baltic States during our build up phase to ensure they can capture the coastline there and prevent invasion through them. At about the same time Iran invades Iraq in order to gain the oil reserves and for revenge. Venezuela then invades Columbia.

4. The United States now finds itself on a three front war without adequate manpower or resources. The draft is reinstated. Detroit's empty car factories are converted and workers recalled to build the nation's new weapons. (Much like WWII). During this period Russia secures the baltics and Georgia. Cuba sends military aid to Venezuela in their assault on Columbia. (Russia possibly also sends aid).

I hope I'm wrong but I think its coming, we are long overdue for a major war in the world. Let's hope Einstein wasn't correct that WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones....

[BankruptPinoy]

Poland, US reach missile shield deal

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0%2C25197%2C24184574-12377%2C00.html

excerpt

"We have reached a deal with the United States on the shield," after Washington agreed to meet Poland's key demand for defence aid separate from the anti-missile system, Mr Tusk told Polish news channel TVN.

Washington aims to base 10 interceptor missiles in Poland plus a radar facility in the neighbouring Czech Republic by 2011-2013 to complete a system already in place in the United States, Greenland and Britain.

The United States insists the plan is to ward off potential missile attacks by "rogue states," notably Iran, and is not directed against Russia.

The shield, however, has become a major source of tension with Moscow.

[BankruptPinoy]

US military will stay in Georgia

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3406941.stm

excerpt:

In 2002 the Bush administration set up an 18-month, $65m programme aimed at training and equipping Georgia's impoverished army.

The programme was part of America's war on terror and it started after the US confirmed Russian allegations about the presence of Chechen and al-Qaeda fighters in Georgia's Pankisi Gorge, on the border with Chechnya.

Details are still to be announced of the new permanent programme, but analysts say that any sort of US military presence is good news for the Georgian Government, which sees the US engagement as a security guarantee against Georgia's northern neighbour - Russia.

The US, whose own stakes in the Caucasus include a multi-billion dollar Caspian oil pipeline...called for Russia to remove its military and said it was even prepared to take up some of the costs needed for the relocation of Russian troops.

[WhatMoney]

US military will stay in Georgia

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3406941.stm

The article you quote is from January 2004, over 4 1/2 years ago. Why is this relevant to today?

[WhatMoney]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7558619.stm

Anger smoulders in rebel city rubble
Thursday, 14 August 2008 17:49 UK

...Barely a building in the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali escaped unscathed from the fighting that began last week, the BBC's Sarah Rainsford discovers.

"We were here four days and nights. We couldn't sleep. Our whole building shook with the bombing," Lusya said. "I just sat here, with my 16-year-old son."

As soon as the fighting calmed down, Lusya sent her son across the border into Russia for safety.

She and her neighbours - and many Ossetians I met both in Tskhinvali and in the main refugee camp in Russia - are furious about what has happened to their city.

They are very clear who they blame: Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili, who sent troops to re-take control of this breakaway region. That effort has clearly backfired. The pro-Russian sentiment I experienced on my last visit four years ago has become far fiercer as a result of this conflict.

"They signed a ceasefire, but Saakashvili can start bombing us again any minute," Lusya said, referring to the OSCE/EU-brokered peace plan between Moscow and Tbilisi.

"We were bombed for three days and nights. If Russia had not helped, we would have disappeared," Lusya's neighbour Elena said, visibly angry. "Only Russia takes us under its wing. We want to be with Russia."

"Look how many people died here! We can never join Georgia after this. We'll cope on our own." ...

[BankruptPinoy]

The article you quote is from January 2004, over 4 1/2 years ago. Why is this relevant to today?

I also like to use the wayback machine at http://www.archive.org/index.php

US officials have said that their military presence in Georgia will now become permanent.

The American military has been training and equipping the Georgian army since the spring of 2002.

Having trained three battalions of Georgian soldiers, US military instructors were due to leave in March.

Georgia's new president-elect has set the removal of Russian troops still based in the country as a major priority for his government.

On Saturday the US ambassador to Georgia said they had decided to continue training the Georgian army in a full-time programme. US 'security guarantee'

During the Soviet era, Krtsanisi military base outside Tbilisi was home to the Red Army.

Now it is US soldiers who are in charge and, according to the US Ambassador in Tbilisi Richard Miles, they are in Georgia to stay.

In 2002 the Bush administration set up an 18-month, $65m programme aimed at training and equipping Georgia's impoverished army.

The programme was part of America's war on terror and it started after the US confirmed Russian allegations about the presence of Chechen and al-Qaeda fighters in Georgia's Pankisi Gorge, on the border with Chechnya.

Details are still to be announced of the new permanent programme, but analysts say that any sort of US military presence is good news for the Georgian Government, which sees the US engagement as a security guarantee against Georgia's northern neighbour - Russia.

Russia tensions

For Moscow, the Caucasus is a geopolitical backyard, rich in energy resources and crucial to the conflict in Chechnya.

Moscow's refusal to remove its military bases from Georgia has long fuelled tensions between the two countries.

Georgia's President-elect, Mikhail Saakashvili, says the removal of the Russian troops will be high on his government's priority list.

The US, whose own stakes in the Caucasus include a multi-billion dollar Caspian oil pipeline, backs this demand.

Last week, the Bush administration also called for Russia to remove its military and said it was even prepared to take up some of the costs needed for the relocation of Russian troops.

Last Updated: Sunday, 18 January, 2004, 02:28 GMT
By Natalia Antelava
In Tbilisi, Georgia

[WhatMoney]

Seems like Georgia is the U.S. pawn - this editorial gives some background.

Adrian Hamilton: We are still fighting the Cold WarGeorgia is the exemplar and the cause of many of these woes. Ever since the Rose Revolution brought democracy into being in Tbilisi in 2003, it (and Ukraine) have been used as the pawn to outside interests rather than for the good of its own people. Blazoned as the forerunner of democratic change throughout the Caucasuses and even central Asia, armed to the teeth by the US and (intriguingly) Israel, it has been induced to send troops to Iraq and Afghanistan to prove that the US has a "coalition of the willing" in its fight against terror and encouraged to take on Russia head-to-head over the enclaves[email protected]
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...ar-894362.html

[BankruptPinoy]

Wag The Dog: How To Conceal Massive Economic Collapse

Ellen Brown, August 14th, 2008

http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/wag_the_dog.php

“I’m in show business, why come to me?”
“War is show business, that’s why we’re here.”
– “Wag the Dog” (1997 film)

Last week, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had just announced record losses, and so had most reporting corporations. Unemployment was mounting, the foreclosure crisis was deepening, state budgets were in shambles, and massive bailouts were everywhere. Investors had every reason to expect the dollar and the stock market to plummet, and gold and oil to shoot up. Strangely, the Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 300 points, the dollar strengthened, and gold and oil were crushed. What happened?

It hardly took psychic powers to see that the Plunge Protection Team had come to the rescue. Formally known as the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets, the PPT was once concealed and its very existence denied as if it were a matter of strict national security. But the PPT has now come out of the closet. What was once a legally questionable “manipulator” of markets has become a sanctioned stabilizer and protector of markets. The new tone was set in January 2008, when global markets took their worst tumble since September 11, 2001. Senator Hillary Clinton said in a statement reported by the State News Service:

“I think it’s imperative that the following step be taken. The President should have already and should do so very quickly, convene the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets. That’s something that he can ask the Secretary of the Treasury to do. . . . This has to be coordinated across markets with the regulators here and obviously with regulators and central banks around the world.” 1

The mystery over what was going on with the dollar the first week in August was solved by James Turk, founder of GoldMoney, who wrote on August 7:

“[T]he banking problems in the United States continue to mount, while the federal government’s deficit continues to soar out of control. . . . So what happened to cause the dollar to rally over the past three weeks? In a word, intervention. Central banks have propped up the dollar, and here’s the proof.

“When central banks intervene in the currency markets, they exchange their currency for dollars. Central banks then use the dollars they acquire to buy US government debt instruments so that they can earn interest on their money. The debt instruments central banks acquire are held in custody for them at the Federal Reserve, which reports this amount weekly.

“On July 16, 2008 . . . , the Federal Reserve reported holding $2,349 billion of US government paper in custody for central banks. In its report released today, this amount had grown over the past three weeks to $2,401 billion, a 38.4% annual rate of growth. . . . So central banks were accumulating dollars over the past three weeks at a rate far above what one would expect as a result of the US trade deficit. The logical conclusion is that they were intervening in currency markets. They were buying dollars for the purpose of propping it up, to keep the dollar from falling off the edge of the cliff and doing so ignited a short covering rally, which is not too difficult to do given the leverage employed in the markets these days by hedge funds and others.”2

Just as central banks manipulate currencies in concert, so gold can be manipulated by massive selling of central bank reserves. Oil and any other market can be manipulated as well. But markets can be manipulated by only so much and for only so long without fixing the underlying problem. There is more bad news coming down the pike, news of such magnitude that no amount of ordinary manipulation is liable to conceal it.

For one thing, roughly $400 billion in ARMs (adjustable rate mortgages) have or will reset between March and October of this year. Assuming 3 to 6 months for strapped debtors to actually hit the wall with their payments, a huge wave of defaults is about to strike, continuing through March 2009 – just in time for the next huge wave of resets, in option ARMs.3 Option ARMs are loans with the option to pay even less than just the interest on the loan monthly, increasing the loan balance until the loan reaches a certain amount (typically 110% to 125% of the original loan balance), when it resets. The $800 billion credit line recently opened to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac may be not only tapped but tapped out, at taxpayer expense. The underlying problem is little discussed but impossible to repair – a one quadrillion dollar derivatives scheme that is now imploding. Banks everywhere are facing massive writeoffs, putting the whole banking system on the brink of collapse. Only public bailouts will save it, but they could bankrupt the nation.

What to do? War and threats of war have been used historically to distract the population and deflect public scrutiny from economic calamity. As the scheme was summed up in the trailer to the 1997 movie “Wag the Dog” --

“There’s a crisis in the White House, and to save the election, they’d have to fake a war.”

Perhaps that explains the sudden breakout of war in the Eurasian country of Georgia on August 8, just 3 months before the November elections. August 8 was the day the Olympic Games began in Beijing, a distraction that may have been timed to keep China from intervening on Russia’s behalf. The mainstream media version of events is that Russia, the bully on the block, invaded its tiny neighbor Georgia; but not all commentators agree. Mikhail Gorbachev, writing in The Washington Post on August 12, observed:

“What happened on the night of Aug. 7 is beyond comprehension. The Georgian military attacked the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali with multiple rocket launchers designed to devastate large areas. Russia had to respond. To accuse it of aggression against ‘small, defenseless Georgia’ is not just hypocritical but shows a lack of humanity. . . . The Georgian leadership could do this only with the perceived support and encouragement of a much more powerful force.” 4

Bruce Gagnon, coordinator of the Global Network against Weapons and Nuclear Power, commented in OpEdNews on August 11:

“The U.S. has long been involved in supporting ‘freedom movements’ throughout this region that have been attempting to replace Russian influence with U.S. corporate control. The CIA, National Endowment for Democracy . . . , and Freedom House (includes Zbigniew Brzezinski, former CIA director James Woolsey, and Obama foreign policy adviser Anthony Lake) have been key funders and supporters of placing politicians in power throughout Central Asia that would play ball with ‘our side’. . . . None of this is about the good guys versus the bad guys. It is power bloc politics . . . . Big money is at stake . . . . Both parties (Republican and Democrat) share a bi-partisan history and agenda of advancing corporate interests in this part of the world. Obama’s advisers, just like McCain’s (one of his top advisers was recently a lobbyist for the current government in Georgia) are thick in this stew.”5

Brzezinski, who is now Obama’s adviser, was Jimmy Carter’s foreign policy adviser in the 1970s. He also served in the 1970s as director of the Trilateral Commission, which he co-founded with David Rockefeller Sr., considered by some to be the “master spider” of the Wall Street banking network.6 Brzezinski, who wrote a book called The Grand Chessboard, later boasted of drawing Russia into war with Afghanistan in 1979, “giving to the Soviet Union its Vietnam War.”7 Is the Georgia affair an attempted repeat of that coup? Mike Whitney, a popular Internet commentator, observed on August 11:

“Washington’s bloody fingerprints are all over the invasion of South Ossetia. Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili would never dream of launching a massive military attack unless he got explicit orders from his bosses at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. After all, Saakashvili owes his entire political career to American power-brokers and US intelligence agencies. If he disobeyed them, he’d be gone in a fortnight. Besides an operation like this takes months of planning and logistical support; especially if it’s perfectly timed to coincide with the beginning of the Olympic games. (another petty neocon touch) That means Pentagon planners must have been working hand in hand with Georgian generals for months in advance. Nothing was left to chance.”8

Part of that careful planning may have been the unprecedented propping up of the dollar and bombing of gold and oil the week before the curtain opened on the scene. Gold and oil had to be pushed down hard to give them room to rise before anyone shouted “hyperinflation!” As we watch the curtain rise on war in Eurasia, it is well to remember that things are not always as they seem. Markets are manipulated and wars are staged by Grand Chessmen behind the scenes.

Ellen Brown, J.D., developed her research skills as an attorney practicing civil litigation in Los Angeles. In Web of Debt, her latest book, she turns those skills to an analysis of the Federal Reserve and “the money trust.” She shows how this private cartel has usurped the power to create money from the people themselves and how we the people can get it back. Her websites are webofdebt.com and ellenbrown.com.

___________________ 1 Remarks from Hillary Clinton on the Global Economic Crisis,” CNN (January 22, 2008) (video preserved on allamericanpatriots.com).
2 James Turk, “Mystery Solved,” GoldMoney.com (August 7, 2008).
3 Bill Murphy, “Wipeout Nightmare,” LeMetropoleCafe.com (August 11, 2008); Ruth Simon, “FirstFed Grapples With Payment-Option Mortgages,” Wall Street Journal (August 6, 2008); Ruth Simon, “Mortgages Made in 2007 Go Bad at Rapid Clip,” ibid. (August 7, 2008).
4 Mikhail Gorbachev, “A Path to Peace in the Caucasus,” Washington Post (August 12, 2008).
5 Bruce Gagnon, “What Do We Know About Georgia-Russia Conflict?”, OpEdNews (August 11, 2008).
6 Hans Schicht, “Financial Spider Webbing,” Gold-eagle.com (February 27, 2004).
7 “Soviet War in Afghanistan,” Wikipedia.
8 Mike Whitney, “Bush’s War in Georgia,” Global Research (August 11, 2008).