Big 3 bailout folds

[Bandit]

China has not been innovative.

Except for their fireworks...

[On The Brink]

Ok Bandit it would be illegal to clock someone in or out of work so theres absolutely no way this could have happened because everyone always does the ethical right thing lmao! Dude Plkease lol

[Bandit]

Ok Bandit it would be illegal to clock someone in or out of work so theres absolutely no way this could have happened because everyone always does the ethical right thing lmao! Dude Plkease lol

I am not saying it has never happened but I have been punching clocks all over this country and I have never witnessed that where the person is not even there. Why risk a good job if you can both be fired for doing that & they will get caught. You can be fired just for clocking someone and the person being there. Why do that when there are cameras & computers at every clock today.

You made it sound like everyone is clocking people in all the time just because of unions and unions make people unethical. Right? Please dude.

Why did you have someone punch you in before when you did not go to work?

[justbroke]

Personally, I want one of those legendary New York CIty "no-show" jobs!

[Genenco]

Wow, I didn't know such a topic would be so...motivating to others on this site. I'm really glad no one has turned to taking cheap shots also.>Well played everyone.

However, I think we're missing something also. High wages...No, not for the workers, but the management..Excuse me, but why does a man who thinks up a "Team Goal" demands all involve themselves and then gets a fat bonus for this?

They shouldn't, unless the workers (Who MADE the goal a reality) get just as much.

Maybe that's what it may come down to (I fear) that instead of min wage, it's going to change back to "Piece rate" and God only knows where that unsavory road may lead us to.

I was working at a factory in Springfield MO (I will NEVER trust a ESOP ever again) and while they did "Bonus" the employees, they also gave the same (Or more from what I did hear, but didn't actually see) to the higher ups who did nothing but push paper and demand of the floor supervisors to "Get their butts moving or you'll be fired along with them"

Sooooo...what else can we expect now???

[Hillbilly]

I agree. However, not to take anything away from my dad. He was a Janitor at G.M making $23.00. Honestly what company pays a janitor $23.00. He retired about 5 years ago. My dad was a real estate investor and such.. However, some of the downfall of these automakers is some the crazy benefit deals and pay that is provided. The only thing I am worried about is all the retirees. I don't want any retiree to have to worry about their lifestyle because of this auto crisis. Hillbilly.. I sent you a PM

PM'd back to you.

[banca rotta]

Did you ever go into a small town and 'look' at the massive old houses from the 1800-1900s? Huge brick homes with decorations over all the windows...things you'd never see in a house built today.

They were able to be built because there were 2 classes of people in america. Doctors and above had the huge houses. Everyone else lived in a farm cabin or under a bridge. The industrial revolution created the middle class...and it built the REST of the houses in that town.

I've been a Republican all my life, and my job (IT Consulting) is not in jeopardy right now. Nevertheless I'm am convinced that Federal Republicans have manipulated my faith to get me to sign on to a purely Oligarchist agenda which will foolishly dismantle this country's economy.
We can go ahead and let the country puke out it's middle class like a dog that ate grass...but those people can't ALL be accountants and lawyers. All of humanity can't be a CEO...somebody's gotta make something or perform the service.

That's my fundamental problem here. We all have brothers/cousins etc who are wonderful people but will never be an Executive. For years I've walked into a voting booth and pi$$ed on them to save a nickel in taxes. I thought somehow God favors these people who would never, ever, compromise "free enterprise" to show compassion for others less fortunate...things people of faith are supposed to hold in high regard.

never again.

I here ya! As Bandit said and for the record I don't agree with everything Mr. Bandit says hence my avatar, "don't think for two seconds the dems are any better" is true.

What surprised me and annoyed me about the recent election is why the people of this country didn't vote out as many incumbents as possible whether they are good or not.

This is the only solution to the bought and paid for political machine and sooner or later everyone will have to stop drinking the partisan kool aid and do the right thing. Get em all out, clean house!

[Bandit]

I was working at a factory in Springfield MO (I will NEVER trust a ESOP ever again) and while they did "Bonus" the employees, they also gave the same (Or more from what I did hear, but didn't actually see) to the higher ups who did nothing but push paper and demand of the floor supervisors to "Get their butts moving or you'll be fired along with them"

I dont get that either, except for the big wig will bribe or pay the higher ups a few extra bucks to screw as many employees as they can so he can have more sailboat trips and a new 50,000 car each year.

I only worked in two factories and they were the worse two jobs I have ever held. We worked so hard, demanded time on sunday with no extra pay, they would give us a raise one week & then take it away the next week, threaten us with intimidation...I had one supervisor attempt to slap my face with her fist & I blocked her punch...oh was she mad!, no water or beverage at your station even when it was 95 degrees, no fans. I had to wait two months for a day off so I could get a broken tooth fixed because they would not allow me to be off to fix it...I worked 18 days straight one time....and things like this is why we have unions. This was of course after most of the union jobs left my home town.

Sooooo...what else can we expect now???

My hunch is we will see more computers take away more jobs as those computer type jobs also get depleted. places like the only living textile factory in USA (alabama) will continue to never give raises, keep them at min. wage, treat them like slaves with fear & threats...and expect them to sweat like pigs with no water and only one break. And if you are one second late, after your 10 min. break back to your machine you will be fired.

and a lot of wicked politicians are going to get caught in their dirty shorts.

[Bandit]

I here ya! As Bandit said and for the record I don't agree with everything Mr. Bandit says hence my avatar, "don't think for two seconds the dems are any better" is true.

What surprised me and annoyed me about the recent election is why the people of this country didn't vote out as many incumbents as possible whether they are good or not.

This is the only solution to the bought and paid for political machine and sooner or later everyone will have to stop drinking the partisan kool aid and do the right thing. Get em all out, clean house!:aggress:

I thought we agreed on everything. I am always right and you are always wrong.

Get em all out, clean house! then interupt their yacht trip to throw them in jail like the IL. governer.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

23.00 and hour is not that much money for someone who probably spent their whole life working & being faithful to the same place in this time. Do you think they should put a cap on what people make? Like janitors should only get 10.00 an hour working for the same place for 30 years? A janitor works just as hard as the guys on the line do cleaning & picking up everyone else sh*t. It is back breaking work. If he were in this right now, do you think he should only get about 10 or 15 bucks an hour at 60 years old?
My dad retired only making $4.50 an hour because he gave 30 of his best years to Wheelobrator and he was only one out of two who run and repair his machine (no one else could do it)- the company left & he got nothing but had to settle for minimun wage at his age of 60 in a dumpy wire factory 20 hours per week. Same thing happened with Uniroyal.

Or am I not understanding.

I understand what you mean about the retirees & agree...I just dont follow the part about your dad because it sounds like you think he made too much money. (?)

Yes, Bandit. I think my dad made too much money for his position.my dad was a union rep at one time and used to travel to do seminars. The position took up too much of his personal time when he was doing other investment stuff outside of work.

My father was able to help one of my friends get into Delphi/GM. However, . She came in making 23.00 putting in pins for stearing columns.

My issue is. She was unskilled, did not have a degree, apprenticeship etc. My other friend makes 30/hr for ergonomics. He went to college and training by GM and started out as a welder. I have no problem with his wages, he had training and education.

Anyone putting in 25-30 years in any job does deserve a decent wage and retirement benefits.

BTW.. I am sure if my dad would have not stayed with GM/Delphi. he would have went on to make more money and probably own his own business. Being retired he is already starting his ecommerce business.

[Genenco]

[QUOTE=Bandit;222813]
My hunch is we will see more computers take away more jobs as those computer type jobs also get depleted. places like the only living textile factory in USA (alabama) will continue to never give raises, keep them at min. wage, treat them like slaves with fear & threats...and expect them to sweat like pigs with no water and only one break. And if you are one second late, after your 10 min. break back to your machine you will be fired.QUOTE]

Hey! It's a 15 min break dang it, you're already trying to cut into my free time! UNION!!! UNION!!! UNION!!!


(By the way, there was 2 companies in MO I was looking at when I got offered jobs, I chose the one which had "Slightly" less pay (I'm taking $0.10 an hour) but was second shift.

Come to find out, that 3 others took the higher pay job and it was at a wood plant which if there was a worker or 2 sick, gone, didn't show you were "FORCED" to go without breaks, water and other stuff.

Oh yeah, they said "Screw this" and left. Called the temp agency and they said "Don't call us again, you're not welcome" I heard that and contacted one and told them to hit the Labor Bureau. I don't know if anything happened, but "Slave labor" still occurs in the USA.

So, there's still room for unions to penetrate....Please, let's not get an ideas of my previous words...Ahem!

[Bandit]

My hunch is we will see more computers take away more jobs as those computer type jobs also get depleted. places like the only living textile factory in USA (alabama) will continue to never give raises, keep them at min. wage, treat them like slaves with fear & threats...and expect them to sweat like pigs with no water and only one break. And if you are one second late, after your 10 min. break back to your machine you will be fired.QUOTE]

Hey! It's a 15 min break dang it, you're already trying to cut into my free time! UNION!!! UNION!!! UNION!!!


(By the way, there was 2 companies in MO I was looking at when I got offered jobs, I chose the one which had "Slightly" less pay (I'm taking $0.10 an hour) but was second shift.

Come to find out, that 3 others took the higher pay job and it was at a wood plant which if there was a worker or 2 sick, gone, didn't show you were "FORCED" to go without breaks, water and other stuff.

Oh yeah, they said "Screw this" and left. Called the temp agency and they said "Don't call us again, you're not welcome" I heard that and contacted one and told them to hit the Labor Bureau. I don't know if anything happened, but "Slave labor" still occurs in the USA.

So, there's still room for unions to penetrate....Please, let's not get an ideas of my previous words...Ahem!

That is because unions have had no or little power for a long time. That is why when people try to blame unions for the economy failing and bankrupting everything, I know they are not the blame for it all.

[Bandit]

Yes, Bandit. I think my dad made too much money for his position.my dad was a union rep at one time and used to travel to do seminars. The position took up too much of his personal time when he was doing other investment stuff outside of work.

I suppose if he were only swapping toilets and sweeping floors, then 50,000 a year would be a lot. BUt if he was dealing with dangerous chemicals and changing hard to reach lightbulbs which most janitors do, then you add the element of danger & he was risking his life, so it would not be too much money. Always remember, one hand for your company and one hand for yourself.

My father was able to help one of my friends get into Delphi/GM. However, . She came in making 23.00 putting in pins for stearing columns.

They wont get that much to start any more even with unions. They will get less than what they were making in the 70's. That is a problem. You cant take people on the assembly line and say one person gets $50 because he puts on the mirror and another guys only gets 20 because he only does the steering wheel. People have always started at about the same rate of pay in factories.

My issue is. She was unskilled, did not have a degree, apprenticeship etc. My other friend makes 30/hr for ergonomics. He went to college and training by GM and started out as a welder. I have no problem with his wages, he had training and education.

a lot of people today do not want to do anything more if it means stepping away from an air conditioned desk. I think we are seeing that college today does not guarantee much of job placement or a higher paying job. From that view point starting with a company & working your way up is not a bad deal but this does not exist much today. Most US companies were loyal to their help through the industrial age and promoted from within which to me was equal to taking up 4 years of basic college. Now? Your college or no college does not mean much -here today gone tomorrow.

I feel we have to a degree made a big mistake about who is skilled and who is not skilled. Most people are able to learn anything you teach them if they want to do the job.

Anyone putting in 25-30 years in any job does deserve a decent wage and retirement benefits.

I agree but that is not how most big companies see it today. They don't want you past age 50, and see they can get the same job done for half by hiring new people all the time. They make big promises to kids today because the kids have not been around the block yet.

BTW.. I am sure if my dad would have not stayed with GM/Delphi. he would have went on to make more money and probably own his own business. Being retired he is already starting his ecommerce business.

Now understand that while your dad was paid well, there were thousands of people who did the same exact work and risked their lives at times, who made no more than minimum wage and got nothing for retirement. So, which way is better?

We also need to seriously look at people who work for themselves. They aren't making it like they did in the 90's because big government has made it so the little guys cannot compete. It used to be easy to compete.

[Genenco]

That is because unions have had no or little power for a long time. That is why when people try to blame unions for the economy failing and bankrupting everything, I know they are not the blame for it all.

Now I wouldn't say that. I remember the longshoremans strike on the west coast a few years back...They demanded several concessions which were "Modified" and they did it fairly quick, after all, they had all west coast ports shut down for a couple of weeks...

Plus there's Boeing (I haven't heard if they've settled. Locally, there's been 2 strikes (Which the union won both) at trucking firms. And I do very well recall that while the workers at Boeing didn't "Strike" one time, they did work "By the book" which meant "Shortcuts " that were developed by the workers, were shunned to "Force" the company to concede to the demands.

So there's plenty of power the unions are still weilding, it's just they are put in a "Spotlight" in which there's really not enough "Facts" for one to see what they are fighting for, thus the "Unions are hurting the USA" attitude which is obviously false.

[Bandit]

Now I wouldn't say that. I remember the longshoremans strike on the west coast a few years back...They demanded several concessions which were "Modified" and they did it fairly quick, after all, they had all west coast ports shut down for a couple of weeks...

Plus there's Boeing (I haven't heard if they've settled. Locally, there's been 2 strikes (Which the union won both) at trucking firms. And I do very well recall that while the workers at Boeing didn't "Strike" one time, they did work "By the book" which meant "Shortcuts " that were developed by the workers, were shunned to "Force" the company to concede to the demands.

So there's plenty of power the unions are still weilding, it's just they are put in a "Spotlight" in which there's really not enough "Facts" for one to see what they are fighting for, thus the "Unions are hurting the USA" attitude which is obviously false.

Agreed but they dont have the pull they had up through the 80's. This present GM mess proves it.
also people only name the big ones. Why not name all the thousands of little factories who have no union, never had a union all over the country who close up shop.

What about the trucking companies over the last 2 years of business with gasoline so high. They made nothing and were losing because they had to pay for their own diesel. What pull did the unions have on that?

Now bus companies were a little different in that they were able to pay up to two years in advance for gasoline, so they did not get hurt like truckers did.