OBAMA warns country will be Bankrupt soon

[TooMuchCredit]

OH, I am so happy about 'Bammy-care. My BCBS is so expensive so much so as a stop gapper policy, I pay very little. Now that we have a Utopia, of free meds, I can breath easier, since all that money 'Bammy wishes to pay for "Green Countries" will certainly keep me alive a bit longer. To date my Social Security has never NOT had a yearly raise. Not in my lifetime. AND, I get a Medicare reduction in benefits to boot. Whooo hooo.

Don't fix what is not broken. Those who need emergency care by law will not be refused. Now, we get to cover EVERYONE. How neat is this? Anyone who can sneak in can get free care. Legal or not. WELL, they are alive, don't they deserve it? Aren't doctors paid to do this? PAID? By who? Oh yes, 'Bammy owns the printing press. What the hell, let's party. Bread and circuses.

We better wise up before it is too late. There is NO FREE LUNCH. 'Hub

Don't fix what is not broken? Are you serious? Have ever had to go to the Emergency room for something serious? Keeping it the way it is now where people can go to the ER for anything, serious or not, is NOT the answer. It keeps people who truely need care from receiving it promptly. If those people had affordable access to a primary care doctor it would clear out the ER to treat true emergencies. And we pay indirectly for that via our property taxes/local sales taxes to fund the county/city hospitals.

ER's cover everyone because that is the moral thing to do. Don't kick a man when he is down. That should not change. What should change is finding a way to prevent those non-emergency folks from going to the ER and getting proper treatment prior.

[Michigan1951]

Yes, you are right about these two types of people.

We are created equal but we are not always equal. Some work long and hard and take risks to succeed, some do not. Some deserve their rewards and some do not. I'm afraid I don't feel these two types of individuals are the same.

Enjoy the ride with your chauffeur. I'm getting out to walk the rest of the way.

The people that file bk are from all over the place, some work long and hard and take risks, some do not. Some really deserve a fresh start, and maybe some do not. But, we have one thing in common, we are human and we make mistakes. We end up here (taking advantage of our right to do so), all together. We are the same, but looking out of different windows of life, families, hardships, sicknesses. I'm sorry, but it would be much easier to try to see good for all, instead of good for some. Like the bk laws are there for all of us, if needed. It is your choice to walk or ride with your chaffeur too.
Some get off and walk because it is easier to walk. And, while you are walking, we will pick you up if you change your mind, or get thirsty or hungry out there all alone after our country gets back on it's feet. And, even then I would not turn away from you. We can't have a harden heart and stir anger while the President is attempting to fix this (and not overnight). I don't think the common people like us really know the extent of what the President and the staff closest to him shelter from us because we couldn't handle it. We only get bits and pieces for a reason. I bet if people that were face to face with President Obama would be speechless. He is a very kind and honest man that is due respect. Even at the end of his 4 yr. term our country's problems will not be corrected. This didn't happen overnight, and I think it is unfair to come down on someone that you don't beleive is doing a good job.
It is your right, yes. Mine, as well, to trust, pray, and stay calm. I appreciate your views as they are excellent. but, I'd like to hear you say the same to me (others that feel the same way). Think how strong our country would be to actually come together as one, and trust each other. Support each other like we do here as we go through the bk process. Nobody knows each other, but we are the same in many ways. Pray for our President Obama to succeed for our good, not just a few. All of us.

[JRScott]

Yet He and Congress keep spending money like there is no end.

If he truly believes that then he needs to trim the Federal Budget and get things in order. Basically he wants to frighten people enough that he might get his Health Care Bill passed, as both a US Senator and President he not only voted but has signed many big spending bills that were laden with pork more in tune to help special interest than the American People.

I really think if the nation does have to go bankrupt we should charge every former and current member of Congress who voted for these massive spending bills and every former and current President and Vice President who refused to veto them with treason.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Don't fix what is not broken? Are you serious? Have ever had to go to the Emergency room for something serious? Keeping it the way it is now where people can go to the ER for anything, serious or not, is NOT the answer. It keeps people who truely need care from receiving it promptly. If those people had affordable access to a primary care doctor it would clear out the ER to treat true emergencies. And we pay indirectly for that via our property taxes/local sales taxes to fund the county/city hospitals.

ER's cover everyone because that is the moral thing to do. Don't kick a man when he is down. That should not change. What should change is finding a way to prevent those non-emergency folks from going to the ER and getting proper treatment prior.

[Michigan1951]

JRScott,
You make some sense from your end. But, here is the way I see it. Nobody knows how this will play out. (As you said in another thread) that global warming is going to happen no matter what, and that the human beings only play 1% fault in moving it along it's natural path. The same goes for how the people have voted in senators and representatives to speak for them (and most do) about the economy, healthcare, wars going on right now. We all hand a hand in cripling our country. It has been going on for years, sorta like a global warming cylce that you say can't be stopped.

It is way more complicated than your point of view, or others that easily put the entire blame on our President. That in itself is ridiculous. None of us have the time to comb through the history books on how Congress or any President has hurt our country. This is too big for any one of us to understand totally, so talking about it is talk. It is what it is right now.

Placing blame should go to each and every one of us in our country except for the poor people that need health insurance, food, and a place to keep them warm. We all had a hand in our country coming to this point. I said before that just looking at all the bk filers, we have the right to file no matter what. But, you and I know, filing bk puts more burden on the country. Some filers had no choice. But our country is helping us. Right?Some of those same people will not have health insurance need to be helped, and there are thousands. It surely is a mess from the lenders, credit card companies, doctors and dentists, hospitals, insurance companies raising costs. It is no wonder there are so many uninsured people right now. What a crisis we are in.

This is not Germany where Hilter packed people in ovens and did away with human beings. By us not helping our own people with insurance, food, warmth would not be how America takes care of their own. It is humanity and compassion for the reasons why the President Obama is trying to help those in need (no insurance). He has much on his plate with the economy and everything else right now. Oh, there is pork money in the bills passed in Congress all the time. Try to stop that. Never can and never will. It has gone on for centuries.
If you don't like it.....change it. You don't have the power to change it. The President was legally voted in to do the right thing for ALL. Not just some. That is my point. I understand where you are coming from as well. I respect that. And again, God is good, and all this will be okay. If our country goes down because the President tried to give health insurance to everyone, then it will be worth the try. If we do nothing, we will go down just as fast, but selfishly. I really like the meeting of the minds on this topic, because it brings us all closer to the center of humanity. Giving us the right to file bk is a humane thing to do for people like us. Rich or poor filing. Doesn't matter. It is the right thing to do. Hands down no matter what the cost.
In other countries you go to prison for not paying your bills. We are blessed here in the USA. Even at it's worst, and it is bad right now. I am thankful that President Obama is not selfish and greedy and ruthless to his people. I am hardcore with supporting him. Period. We all are simple people trying to make sense of caring for our own. Standing together in times of trouble, divided you fall. This forum is an example of coming together, for different reasons, all walks of life. We need our country's help, and others need help (health insurance, jobs) in the same ways.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Don't fix what is not broken? Are you serious? Have ever had to go to the Emergency room for something serious? Keeping it the way it is now where people can go to the ER for anything, serious or not, is NOT the answer. It keeps people who truely need care from receiving it promptly. If those people had affordable access to a primary care doctor it would clear out the ER to treat true emergencies. And we pay indirectly for that via our property taxes/local sales taxes to fund the county/city hospitals.

ER's cover everyone because that is the moral thing to do. Don't kick a man when he is down. That should not change. What should change is finding a way to prevent those non-emergency folks from going to the ER and getting proper treatment prior.

Further, if you wish to fix our great health care, the best in the World, fix the lawyer ambulance chasers. Get rid of Tort or bring in Tort reform, not health reform. Allow free trade across state lines. Disallow pre existing conditions for a reasonable time period (as they now). Allow imported medicines.

We don't have enough ink to print the money that this will cost us and our future generations. I am terrified I will have to say to many people I know, who are yearning for a free lunch in this, that "I told you so".

How'd your bk come about? I tried what 'Bammy is doing now. I spent more money so as to make myself richer. Gee, it didn't work for me. It won't work for him, and it never worked for any company.

We already have cameras on every corner. Our cell phones whether off or on are satellite tracked, the day will come that the next "mandatory" flue shot will have a microchip in the injection, and you will be tracked as well.

Big Brother has arrived.

[AngelinaCatHub]

This is not Germany where Hilter packed people in ovens and did away with human beings. By us not helping our own people with insurance, food, warmth would not be how America takes care of their own. It is humanity and compassion for the reasons why the President Obama is trying to help those in need (no insurance). He has much on his plate with the economy and everything else right now. Oh, there is pork money in the bills passed in Congress all the time. Try to stop that. Never can and never will. It has gone on for centuries.

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime. No problem with temporary help. We have made a class of people (all races) that "draw" for a living. I don't mean art work, either. 'Hub

[JRScott]

America became a strong nation because neighbors loved one another, knew each other and supported one another through trials and tribulations. Now over half of Americans couldn't even tell you the name of their neighbors. They are distanced from them. This is a direct result of Woodrow Wilson and the progressive agenda. Folks figure they pay their taxes and they thus don't have to get involved in their neighbors lives or help their neighbors out anymore, they paid their taxes to do it, that's wrong thinking.

You have to realize the nation is already broke has been for 20 years. We already have more unfunded federal liabilities than the combined personal and business assets of all citizens of the United States.

We can't afford it. That doesn't mean people have to suffer. It means the Federal Government can't do it all, there is simply to much corruption. The further you remove the helper from the helped the more corruption occurs. Many of the services provided could be run much more efficiently on a state and local level than a federal one.

I don't just blame the current President and Congress. This has been a long road that started largely in the Woodrow administration. Yes some of us do spend a lot of time reading history.

The issues are not that complicated, every person on this forum has learned that you can't get something for nothing and you can't keep putting off paying for what your getting today til tomorrow. At some point it catches up with you. Congress and the President from the time of the Woodrow administration until now have not learned that lesson sadly. The last time the United States was out of debt Andrew Jackson was President.

Congress and the various Presidents have mismanaged the people's money drastically. Had they invested the Social Security funds from the last 60 years rather than spending the money after roads, bridges, buildings etc named after themselves then Social Security wouldn't be in trouble. Same for Medicare which is headed for bankruptcy in about 5 years.

You have to realize that as a nation we are deeply in debt. The government keeps 5 books, so as to kind of smokescreen the actual debt. Combined the federal liability that is currently unfunded is around 118 trillion dollars. That's not counting State and Local government debts or personal and corporate debt. The total assets of every American and all companies on American soil only equal 74 trillion dollars. So even if you took everything from everyone you are short about 44 trillion dollars.

There is no way to make up for the lost compounded interest that not investing the Social Security money has cost us. However of that unfunded liability it is the least, the majority of the unfunded liability about 73 trillion dollars is in Medicare.

The break down of the system is the raising life expectancy without actually changing the year of collection. You can't lower the age as we can't afford more on these programs. What needs to happen is what is politically inconvenient. You need to tell folks they can't retire at 65 or 62.

When the Social Security bill was passed the life expectancy of a man born in the United States was 62 years of age. They set the age to collect full benefits to 3 years after you were suppose to be dead. However they didn't codify that in the law. Now we have far more folks collecting on these programs as a result, far more than was ever projected originally and as a result the programs are bankrupt.


Current life expectancy in the United States is 77.7 years of age. So if you used the same thinking that they used originally the age for partial benefits today should be 77 years of age and 80 should be the time for full benefits.

We simply can't afford folks to be retired for decades or to collect federal benefits for decades. That's what we've been doing though and is what is leading us to bankruptcy as a nation. Giving more social programs we can't pay for will not help that.

I wish I had more time but I need to head off before I get stuck on the mountain here (its snowing suppose to snow couple feet). I'll try to post more later.

[dakota112]

Its basically like this. NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED. You treat the indigent and the poor because your intentions are good of heart( unlike most attorneys who could care less if you are a thief, criminal or murderer as long as you can pay them at a rate that is five times higher than a visit to a doctor costs); Than after you treat them for free no less because you felt it was the right thing to do, if the outcome is less than perfect, guess what? They hire an attorney to sift through the records to see if they can sue you. Now that is what I call health care reform. Doctors are not stupid people and at the end of the day will protect themselves and few will find themselves working for free in this environment of laws made by lawyers. Imagine your doctor telling you if while treating you, you will be charged an extra $200.00 an hour if you have a complication. Hell he would be sued just for mentioning the fact that a complication could occur, yet my lawyer made it clear that anything beyond the already $2500.00 fee that arises will cost me $200.00 an hour. It amazes me that the collective conscience of our Congress(lawyers), hasn't passed legal care reform yet. Think of all the money they could bring in for the trial lawyers.

[LimpDisc]

This would be great news!!! We can't start rebuilding until we hit rock bottom.

The country could use a fresh start and a hampster dance.

[Michigan1951]

To LimpDisc

LimpDisc. Now that is funny!! loved it!! Our forum is truly fun to be with. Honestly, I enjoy the views...all of them!!

[TooMuchCredit]

We already have cameras on every corner. Our cell phones whether off or on are satellite tracked, the day will come that the next "mandatory" flue shot will have a microchip in the injection, and you will be tracked as well.

Big Brother has arrived.

I see nothing wrong with cameras in public spaces. As long as we ensure the folks that have access to those cameras are not corrupt. That would be bad, but in the right hands, it would aide in capturing criminals and hopefully reduce crime in the first place if folks knew they were being watched.

Red light cameras are great too. I have on one occasion made a left turn and thought I was really pushing the yellow. Well FIVE cars came behind me and they definitely ran the light. I am for speed cameras too, especially in construction zones. There's a 30 mile stretch of I-85 that has been under construction for a few years now. There is no shoulder on either side just cement walls. The speed was dropped to 60 originally, but after several firey tractor trailor accidents, the limit was dropped to 50. However, that was pointless. 60 was fine, but people were still going 80+. There was no place for a state patrol to sit and catch people, so putting up cameras in places might have detered the maniacs and avoided accidents.

They already have cameras on the freeways in order to view traffic and measure speeds.

GPS in cellphones is there to help pin point location in case of emergency. Without it, when you call 911, you can be routed to a call center miles away and if you are unable to specify your location, you will not receive prompt assistance. I don't know that the GPS is still active when the phone is off - do you have proof of that? I know on planes it's illegal to operate GPS devices so if the GPS remains on when you turn off the cellphone, they might have issue with that.

Flu shots have not been mandatory. They have been strongly suggested for certain groups of people. If you don't want one and get the flu, you can always go to the ER and wait :-)

[TooMuchCredit]

Further, if you wish to fix our great health care, the best in the World, fix the lawyer ambulance chasers. Get rid of Tort or bring in Tort reform, not health reform. Allow free trade across state lines. Disallow pre existing conditions for a reasonable time period (as they now). Allow imported medicines.
.

There are many studies that refute our best health care in the world. We like to think we are the best at everything. Many procedures and equipment comes from oversees, in particular Germany.

The lawsuits amount to a small % of the cost of healthcare. I do agree that reform is needed, but it can be separate from any reform.

We already have free trade across state lines. An insurance company is free to set up an offer insurance in each state.

Pre-existing conditions need to be covered day 1. Those are the people that need insurance the most.

[TooMuchCredit]

Health care is NOT broken. It will be when there are less doctors. When all can freely go to the emergency room with their sniffles.

The idea is that reform would keep people OUT of emergency rooms and have them go to a regular doctor.

In my opinion, unless a person arrives by ambulance, they should be treated by a 'Candie striper and sent home.

If they are obviously bleeding that is different but a triage should be legal to weed out the dead beats. 'Hub

I do agree there that there should be triage. And repeat "hypocondriacs" should be sent to a different clinic where they can wait.

And I will probably have rocks thrown at me for this, but I think that when one signs up for public assistance, - welfare, unemployment, etc. They should sign a contract not to have any children while on assistance. If they fail to do so and have a baby, they will be (reversably) "fixed" - tubes tied or vasectomy. Once they are off assistance for 1 year, the procedure will be reversed.

I think that people who can afford to have children but do not, or only have one or 2, should be given a bonus if they do have another. (That would include adopting.)

We don't want over population, but the way we are going, those that can afford to have children - feed them, cloth them, educate them - aren't. Unless a couple has 2.x (not sure what the x) is, there aren't enough babies to replace them.

[justbroke]

The lawsuits amount to a small % of the cost of healthcare. I do agree that reform is needed, but it can be separate from any reform.

Unfortunately the Root Cause of the healthcare costs, is tort liability! While the actual malpractice insurance to Doctors costs $205Bn a year, the problem is with how the doctors now behave. They order too many tests. They don't prescribe medications that would help because the Doctor knows or has reason to believe that the medication would be involved or is involved in litigation.

What you have is a great medical system, that's afraid of doing anything. This is why Tort Reform would drive the costs down significantly. I know a neurosurgeon that has malpractice insurance in the $200K/year range. She only earns $750K/year.

Would you pay almost 1/3 of your annual salary on a performance bond in order to work? That means a doctor earning $500K has to charge a 50% premium... to cover their costs.

I think we have issues everywhere. As I posted before, I do some high-end consulting in various industries including healthcare. There are problems in healthcare from billing to torts. Only a thorough bottoms-up overhaul will work. No one wants to do it. Everything being "suggested" now is just a patch. The current bill in the Congress is about covering people not about saving money.

I'll say it here... you can't have healthcare reform unless you address the whole gambit from billing to torts. Don't use fear-mongering by stating that the failure to provide coverage for all (and it's not all by the way) is going to bankrupt the country. Social Security and other entitlement programs, are the biggest single issue right now, and they (the Congress and Administration) still refuse to deal with it. Perhaps for the next President...

Thomas Jefferson may have not been a great orator like Hamilton and Adams were... but he did leave us with this...

"If we can but prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy." - Thomas Jefferson