Are you more pessimistic about the economy than most?

[Xue]

...are you more pessimistic about the economy/recovery than people you know that haven't been affected?

I am - I absolutely believe that the economy will continue to tank and that this will eventually be declared a depression.

Ok, we have rioting in Atlanta. We have people waiting in line for 2 days. We have banks lowering the interest rate but not loaning money or people can't get loans or people don't have jobs to get a home loan.

Housing crisis reaches full boil in East Point; 62 injured

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/housing-crisis-reaches-full-589653.html

Mortgage rates hit 4.44 pct. as economy sours
Average fixed mortgage rates fall to 4.44 pct. on weak economy and Fed move to buy gov't debt

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Mortgage-rates-hit-444-pct-as-apf-2266986134.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=#mwpphu-container

Jobs picture dims as unemployment claims rise
Jobs picture darkens as new unemployment claims rise to 484K, highest level since February

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Jobs-picture-dims-as-apf-3180551258.html?x=0&.v=15

we live in a failed nation

we gave over our rights and our nation when we started to blindly trust our leaders.

Nixon should have been a wake up call to all of us that LARGE gov. can not be trusted

we where sold a PIPE DREAM .....EVERYONE could be wealthy ....doesnt work that way

GREED IS EVIL it has brought down every other great nation in history
we let our gov. be bought and sold so many times only the insiders know whos in charge

Please google ...OUR FOUNDING FATHERS....and you'll see what we have today is nothing like what they fought and died for.
You'll also see that they felt WE THE PEOPLE meant something and gov. was to work FOR US

not the other way around,WE are the ones that hire them and give them a pay check.

Lets stop looking to the Donkey and the Elephant to solve our problems....they are 1 of our biggest problems... they no longer work us they work for the highest bidder.

THE FACTS NEVER CHANGE JUST THE PLAYERS STOP PLAYING THE GAME
we would be better off with NO ONE in washington then the theifs that are there now

the only way we will ever see REAL change is to create it ourselves
.....................Revolution................... .........
# Complete change from one constitution to another
# Modification of an existing constitution
it was good enough for our founding fathers it should be good enough for us

--Willam Albert

Christopher S. Rugaber, AP Economics Writer, On Thursday August 12, 2010, 7:04 pm EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The economy is looking bleaker as new applications for jobless benefits rose last week to the highest level in almost six months.

Thirty thousand people turned out in East Point on Wednesday seeking applications for government-subsidized housing, and their confusion and frustration, combined with the summer heat, led to a chaotic mob scene that left 62 people...Some waited in line for two days for the applications.

Some more comments put together:

Hmmm 0% interest hmmmm 0% jobs to be had hmmmm 0%income hmmm 0% chance of being able to pay a mortage on time. America land of 0% oppurtunity right now These situations going on now are not any one persons fault not clintons not bushes and not o bama we need to crash as hard is it might be for some to deal with it needs to happen just need to put bars on all the upper windows on wall street they might have a hard time accepting it.

Prepare for the crash that is coming very soon....

2 years ago I was in the same situation. I had a job paying $35/hour that I had been with for 7 years. I owned my own home bought 2 years prior under an ARM persuaded by a mortgage lender friend of my brother. Then, I lost my job, liquidated my 401k of $63k to survive for the next 2 years while falling further behind in debt. I had to file bankruptcy. The house was foreclosed upon. I am now living in a friends' garage with 2 part-time jobs that pay $800/month. I pay him $200/month for utilities.

There are no jobs out there. I have been looking for 3 years. If this was my fault, how come I can't remedy the situation?

You don't know me or know everyone's problems - don't claim to know whose fault it is. A lot of life's successes & problems can be attributed to who you know, timing, & just sheer luck.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we need to throw our differences aside real soon otherwise our opinions won't matter.

Thursday, August 12, 2010
Signs of the Collapse : 30K apply for Public Housing in Atlanta
30,000 People Crowd for Housing Help

August 12--A crowd of 30,000 people endured extreme heat to receive housing assistance in East Point, Ga. Mad Dash For Public Housing Applications In Atlanta 30k People Showed up.
30,000 People Show Up For Public Housing Help In Atlanta - Police In Riot Gear

http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOCNoMMJGSs

“When CNN wants to know about the Top Trends, we ask Gerald Celente.”
— CNN Headline News

“A network of 25 experts whose range of specialties would rival many university faculties.”
— The Economist

“Gerald Celente has a knack for getting the zeitgeist right.”
— USA Today

“There’s not a better trend forecaster than Gerald Celente. The man knows what he’s talking about.”
– CNBC

“Those who take their predictions seriously … consider the Trends Research Institute.”
— The Wall Street Journal

“Gerald Celente is always ahead of the curve on trends and uncannily on the mark … he’s one of the most accurate forecasters around.”
— The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

“Mr. Celente tracks the world’s social, economic and business trends for corporate clients.”
— The New York Times

“Mr. Celente is a very intelligent guy. We are able to learn about trends from an authority.”
— 48 Hours, CBS News

“Gerald Celente has a solid track record. He has predicted everything from the 1987 stock market crash and the demise of the Soviet Union to green marketing and corporate downsizing.”
— The Detroit News

“Gerald Celente forecast the 1987 stock market crash, ‘green marketing,’ and the boom in gourmet coffees.”
— Chicago Tribune

“The Trends Research Institute is the Standard and Poors of Popular Culture.”
— The Los Angeles Times

“If Nostradamus were alive today, he’d have a hard time keeping up with Gerald Celente.”
— New York Post

So there you have it – hardly a nutjob conspiracy theorist blowhard now is he?



15 Economic Statistics That Just Keep Getting Worse
The Economic Collapse
August 12, 2010

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/15-economic-statistics-that-just-keep-getting-worse

A little over a week ago, U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner penned an article for the New York Times entitled "Welcome To The Recovery" in which he touted the great strides that the U.S. economy was making. But with unemployment still dangerously high and with foreclosures and personal bankruptcies continuing to set all-time records, should we really be talking about a "recovery"? The truth is that the numbers don't lie, and statistic after statistic shows that the economic fundamentals continue to get progressively worse. The U.S. government can continue to try to pump up with economy with more debt, but the reality is that there is not going to be a legitimate "recovery" until consumer spending rebounds. Consumer spending makes up the vast majority of U.S. GDP. But without good jobs, consumers are not going to be able to spend money. Unfortunately, our jobs base continues to be erode as millions upon millions of middle class jobs are shipped over to China, India and dozens of third world nations by the global predator corporations that now dominate the world economy.

The U.S. government cannot create real wealth out of thin air. It can borrow even more money and flood the economy with even more paper currency, but the short-term "buzz" that creates does absolutely nothing to solve our long-term economic problems.

It is the private sector that actually creates wealth. But unfortunately, over the last several decades we have allowed that wealth to become highly concentrated. Now the giant global predator corporations have decided that American workers aren't really that desirable after all. They are slowly taking away their factories and their offices and they are moving them to where people are willing to work for one-tenth the pay.

So where does that leave middle class American "consumers"?

Well, it leaves us in a world of hurt.

The following are 15 key economic statistics that just keep getting worse and which reveal the horrific economic plight in which we now find ourselves....

1 - The number of Americans who are receiving food stamps rose to a new all-time record of 40.8 million in May. The number of Americans receiving food stamps has set a new all-time record for 18 months in a row. But there is every indication that things are going to get even worse. The U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that the number of Americans on food stamps will increase to 43 million in 2011.

2 - The U.S. economy lost 131,000 more jobs during the month of July. But the truth is that the U.S. economy has been bleeding jobs for a long time. According to one analysis, the United States has lost 10.5 million jobs since 2007. Meanwhile, immigrants (both legal and illegal) continue to pour into this nation in unprecedented numbers.

3 - Americans who are out of work are finding it incredibly difficult to get back into the workforce. In the United States today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to an all-time record of 35.2 weeks.

4 - The U.S. government keeps trying to pump up the economy with debt, and in the process things are getting wildly out of control. According to a U.S. Treasury Department report to Congress, the U.S. national debt will top $13.6 trillion this year and climb to an estimated $19.6 trillion by 2015.

5 - The interest on all of this debt is becoming increasingly oppressive. As of July 1st, the U.S. government had spent $355 billion so far in 2010 on interest payments to the holders of the national debt. The total for 2010 should be somewhere in the neighborhood of $700 billion. According to Erskine Bowles, one of the heads of Barack Obama's national debt commission, the U.S. government will be spending $2 trillion just on interest on the national debt by 2020. Keep in mind that the entire U.S. government budget is less than $4 trillion for the entire year of 2010.

6 - If the U.S. government was forced to use GAAP accounting principles (like all publicly-traded corporations must), the annual U.S. government budget deficit would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $4 trillion to $5 trillion.

7 - Social Security will pay out more in benefits in 2010 than it receives in payroll taxes. This was not supposed to happen until at least 2015. In the years ahead, these new "Social Security deficits" are projected to be absolutely catastrophic.

8 - There are simply far too many retirees and not nearly enough workers to support them. Back in 1950 each retiree's Social Security benefit was paid for by 16 workers. Today, each retiree's Social Security benefit is paid for by approximately 3.3 workers. By 2025 it is projected that there will be approximately two workers for each retiree.

9 - Wealth continues to become highly concentrated at the top. Since 1973, the average CEO’s salary has increased from 26 times the median income to over 300 times the median income.

10 - According to a poll taken in 2009, 61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck. That was up significantly from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.

11 - The Mortgage Bankers Association recently announced that more than 10% of all U.S. homeowners with a mortgage had missed at least one mortgage payment during the January to March time period. That was a new all-time record and represented an increase from 9.1 percent a year ago.

12 - A recent survey of last year's college graduates found that 80 percent moved right back home with their parents after graduation. That was up substantially from 63 percent in 2006.

13 - During the first quarter of 2010, the total number of loans that are at least three months past due in the United States increased for the 16th consecutive quarter.

14 - The total number of U.S. bank failures passed the 100 mark in July of this year. In 2009, the total number of U.S. bank failures did not pass the century barrier until October.

15 - The U.S. dollar continues to rapidly decline in value. An item that cost $20.00 in 1970 would cost you $112.35 today. An item that cost $20.00 in 1913 would cost you $440.33 today.

Any rational observer (and clearly U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner does not qualify) can see that the foundations of the U.S. economy are coming apart. The rapidly accumulating mountain of debt that has fueled our "prosperity" is impossible to repay and is going to progressively choke the life out of our economic system. The good jobs that we have allowed to be shipped out of our country are never coming back. Every single day, more wealth flows out of this country than flows into it.

Anyone who claims that things are getting "better" is either ignorant, completely deluded or is purposely lying.

The U.S. economy is not getting "better".

The U.S. economy is dying.

You should adjust your plans accordingly.


Anyone who claims that things are getting “better” is either ignorant, completely deluded or is purposely lying.

[andy158]

Reinforces the old cliche ..."money is the root of all evil". How much is enough?

[Meatstick]

I have a pretty good chuckle everytime I read one of these links that suggests the only way out is to spend, spend, spend............

[banca rotta]

http://www.businessinsider.com/worst-ceos-ever-2009-6

Of course Logan we can't blame the whole bunch for the few rotten apples. Right?

I figured that will be your next line so I would save you the trouble.

There are plenty more Ken Lays and Jeff Skillings today but we won't know until it's too late.

[Scott50]

Now who can argue with a CEO??? They have been correct thus far why stop listening to them now?

exactly- like a CEO has never lied before- i.e. Enron, Tyco, etc..

[Logan]

Now who can argue with a CEO??? They have been correct thus far why stop listening to them now?

And how have they been incorrect? Please tell me....

They know the outlook for their company better than any of us so their opinions are certainly better than ours.

[banca rotta]

CEO's in this country are telling us things are looking good and there is no double dip in sight even in this high unemployment.


Logan

Now who can argue with a CEO??? They have been correct thus far why stop listening to them now?

[Logan]

IMO..the job losses aren't that bad for the economy as most people think. My company leads into a recession and lags out of a recession and we are doing very well selling more product in more than 10 years and charging more which means the customer is willing to pay more.

I think what's happening is the people who never lost their jobs or people like me who have made good income over the past few years have been sitting on the sidelines saving their money since every time you turn on the tv (FOX,CNN,MSNBC,CNBC) the sky was falling. While the sky may have fallen briefly for some (stock market crash) and it did fall for a few (job loss, foreclosure) the reality is people in my situation are spending money.

Personally, once the market crashed I cut back then my company threatened layoffs so I cut back even more. Now that it's evident we're not laying off and now that I've saved a large emergency fund I've once again become a consumer. As long as I remain employed I will continue to spend.

CEO's in this country are telling us things are looking good and there is no double dip in sight even in this high unemployment.

Will this end? I don't know but I do know that I'm spending more money now than I ever have on stuff.

Logan

[banca rotta]

Excerpt:



US job losses are double expected figure
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ouble-expected

Thanks for pointing this out Xue.

Besides the lousy jobless numbers they throw out there that anyone not smoking crack can see, I also noticed for some time that they keep revising the previous months numbers to be much worse then initially stated.

Governments have lied to the people since the beginning of time, but they can no longer sustain the big white lie.

Everyone knows someone either unemployed, underemployed or has a job doing double the work raising the stress levels.

We on Main Street all know something just isn't right here no matter what they report.

This joseph gerbils style strategy just won't fly much longer.

[Xue]

Excerpt:

Employers in the US shed twice as many jobs as expected in July, adding to fears that the recovery in the world's largest economy will not see a revival in employment.

The dismal US job figures came as the National Institute of Economic and Social Research predicted a protracted depression for the UK economy.

Across the Atlantic talk of a double-dip recession was revived when the government revealed 131,000 jobs were lost last month. That dwarfed forecasts for a fall of 65,000. June's drop was also revised to a far steeper 221,000 from 125,000.

The White House urged critics not to read too much into a single month's data ...The sharp drop in jobs, which follows news of slowing economic growth in the US, is likely to prompt discussions at the Federal Reserve's market committee meeting on Tuesday...

US job losses are double expected figure

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/aug/06/us-job-losses-double-expected

[Xue]

Paul Polman, Unilever's chief executive, says anyone counting on consumers to spend those markets out of their torpor will have a long wait – it could be five years before any significant growth returns.

Western shoppers stay on the shelf

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/7929136/Western-shoppers-stay-on-the-shelf.html

The monthly jobs report from the Labor Department is a key indicator on the health of the economy and is closely watched by investors and economists. Job creation has a huge effect on the rest of the economy, influencing how much people spend on cars, clothes, travel and even homes. The latest report confirmed that many employers are still reluctant to hire.

Stocks, dollar fall after weak US jobs report
Stocks and dollar tumble as weak employment report worsens US outlook; Treasurys gain

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stocks-retreat-after-apf-1463901510.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

Ed Schultz: Wall Street Treats American Workers Like Roadkill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5AEEg3g4uU

How the US economy is being deliberately destroyed

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/897.html

The crash will continue: Gerald Celente

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6JSpyHtEDI

[WhatMoney]

Professor Morici is a longtime right-wing Republican mouthpiece. His article is a partisan editorial piece and full of misdirections and deceiving statistics. It is about par for the course in this thread.

Here's another opinion piece by a longtime Democrat mouthpiece. Notice the difference in style - honesty vs distortions from Morici.

The Obama Agenda and the Enthusiasm GapProfessor Reich, a former U.S. secretary of labor, is Chancellor's professor of public policy at the Goldman School of Public Policy, University of California, Berkeley. His next book, "Aftershock: The Next Economy and America's Future," will be published in September by Alfred A. Knopf.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_opinion_main
.

[banca rotta]

If President Obama wants to fix the federal deficit and create jobs, perhaps he should dust off George Bush's 2007 budget and spend a lot less, get serious about better using and developing more conventional fossil fuels, and finally fixing trade with China.

George Bush was certainly no fiscal conservative as we all found out just by all the debt he got us into.

I do agree though that to minimize any pain Congress and the the president should just stick to a budget!!!

Sadly now it's too late but years ago they should have passed a budget even if it wasn't balanced and kept the same budget for years after and it probably would automatically balance itself. I will bet there would have been very little inflation as well.

[Scott50]

Morici: Friday's Jobs Report: Outlook Darkens for Economy, Obama

Morici: Friday's Jobs Report: Outlook Darkens for Economy, Obama

On Wednesday August 4, 2010, 12:23 pm EDT


Friday, forecasters expect the Labor Department to report the economy shed 70 thousand jobs in July and unemployment rose to 9.6 percent.

Economists expect the private sector created about 100 thousand jobs but government employment fell 170 thousand, as more temporary census jobs disappeared.

Thirteen months into recovery from a deep recession, this is disappointing. The economy must add 13 million private sector jobs by the end of 2013 to bring unemployment down to 6 percent. President Obama's policies are not creating conditions for businesses to hire those 320,000 workers each month, net of layoffs.

Net of inventory adjustments, the economy demand for goods and services is growing at only 1.3 percent a year.



In the second quarter, consumer spending; investment in new structures, equipment and software; and government purchases added 4.1 percent to demand-but as imports grew much more rapidly than exports, the trade deficit tapped off 2.8 percent.

The difference, 1.3 percent, is annual growth in demand for U.S.-made goods and services. That has been the pace since recovery began in July 2009.

Businesses can accommodate up to 2 percent growth in demand by improving productivity and not adding workers. Unless the rapid growth in imports can be curbed, the U.S. economy is headed for very slow growth and rising unemployment. (Read more: Private Sector Adds 42,000 Jobs in July; Layoffs Slow)

Washington is not helping.

The massive permanent expansion in federal spending and regulatory oversight built into President Obama's budget is discouraging private hiring by raising fears of higher taxes and regulation. Simply, higher taxes discourage purchases of non-essentials and high-line durable goods, like better appliances, more appointed automobiles and higher-quality homes, and higher taxes and tougher regulation increase incentives to offshore production to locations where those burdens are less.

Prior to the crisis in 2007, President Bush spent 19.6 percent of GDP and the deficit was $161 billion in 2007; whereas two years into the economic recovery in 2011, President Obama's budget projects outlays at 25.1 percent of GDP and a $1.3 trillion deficit in 2011.

All that spending will require higher taxes, and raising taxes on families earning $250,000 simply won't be enough finance it. And, higher rates for those families will raise taxes on half the income earned by proprietorships-those small and medium sized businesses will invest less to create jobs.



Much of the $787 stimulus money was squandered on pet projects that created few jobs. For example, grants to build green buildings displace other planned construction and don't increase the amount of commercial space rented or built over the next several years.

The biggest banks received more than $2 trillion in TARP and Federal Reserve assistance to clean up their balance sheets and recapitalize securities trading, while the 8000 regional banks got little assistance and remain burdened by toxic real estate loans. Consequently, more than 230 regional banks have failed, and small and medium sized businesses cannot get credit to expand.

In addition to credit, businesses need more customers to create jobs, and the trade deficit-in particular, imports of oil and the imbalance with China-cut a huge hole in demand for U.S. goods and services. Without addressing oil and China, other efforts to create jobs are futile.

The president's moratorium on deep water drilling, though popular with environmental fundamentalists, kills jobs two ways-directly, by laying off workers in the oil and gas industry and indirectly, by sending too many consumer dollars abroad that could be spent here.

Detroit has the technology to build much more efficient gasoline-powered vehicles now, and a shift in national policy to rapidly build these would reduce oil imports and create many jobs.

China's undervalued currency that makes its products artificially cheap and deceivingly competitive on U.S. store shelves, but its promise of new flexibility on the yuan has not translated into meaningful revaluation.

If President Obama wants to fix the federal deficit and create jobs, perhaps he should dust off George Bush's 2007 budget and spend a lot less, get serious about better using and developing more conventional fossil fuels, and finally fixing trade with China.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Morici-Fridays-Jobs-Report-cnbc-878363243.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

[Logan]

Logan, I guess I wasn't completely clear in my post. Those who are unemployed will not have jobs to go back to and very few new jobs are going to be created as the big corporations have replaced those workers with more productive methods and/or processes. The government cannot continue to extend unemplyment benefits forever. When the benefits finally run out, all of the money the unemployed now spend - will disappear and so will the consumption. that goes along with it. Whether you want to admit it or not we are all in a recession, its just that the government has been able to mask it over with ever extended unemployment benefits. I hate to tell you this but we are all in this together. If you somehow feel that you will be able to escape the consequences of our inability to face our problems, then you are in for a rude awakening. Not one of the industries you cite as examples of "good times" are likely or even capable of pulling the employment numbers back up.

I disagree but that's ok because time will tell......

And BTW...It really doesn't matter to me since as always I will figure it out and hopefully so will you!

Logan