Are you more pessimistic about the economy than most?

[Logan]

Logan- I don't think so... No matter how you try to spin things... one out of ten americans is out of a job.. for every job opening there are five applicants.. per the Obama administration- the unemployment rate will be above 9% until well until 2011...

Tell me what the normal unemployment rate is Scott50?
The goal is to get back to the normal unemployment rate--not to 0 since that would be impossible.

The best we've seen is an unemployment rate of 4% in recent history (2000) with the average at around 5%.

That puts us about 5% over the norm so all we need to do is employ about 5% of the unemployed to be back to normal.

Logan

[Scott50]

I guess you didn't understand what I was saying...I know it's a little advanced for some.

Logan- I don't think so... No matter how you try to spin things... one out of ten americans is out of a job.. for every job opening there are five applicants.. per the Obama administration- the unemployment rate will be above 9% until well until 2011...

[Xue]

Excerpt:
"Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner acknowledged that it is still a "tough economy" for most Americans, and warned it's possible the unemployment rate will go up for a couple of months before it comes down as more people enter the labor force. "

Source:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/treasury-secretary-timothy-geithner-unemployment/story?id=11308157

Excerpt:
"The backlog at the US Embassy, where no appointments are available until February, stems from a rise in the number of American expatriates living in the UK who have been seeking to escape paying US tax on their worldwide income and capital gains since the simplification of US tax laws in 2008. "

Source:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0ae8415c-9e5e-11df-a5a4-00144feab49a.html?ftcamp=rss

Excerpt:
"What does true freedom mean to you?

I think true freedom is being able to make your own choices, without having the influence of other entities you haven’t invited into your life. "

Source:

http://www.bravenewtraveler.com/2010/02/03/interview-simon-black-the-most-free-man-in-the-world/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgMclXX5msc

If you can't watch the complete thing, at least watch the last 15 minutes, it basically explains why he thinks the dollar will collapse and why there's going to be inflation, maybe even hyperinflation.
Basically he thinks that what happened in Argentina will happen in USA sooner or later, which a lot of people think so as well.
I really dont like predicting, but I see that he makes a few truthful points. Will it be as bad as it was here? Maybe, I dont know.

Yes, those are bundles of German Marks that they are stacking. . .

Excerpt:
"Even though the U.S. financial system nearly experienced a total meltdown in late 2008, the truth is that most Americans simply have no idea what is happening to the U.S. economy.Most people seem to think that the nasty little recession that we have just been through is almost over and that we will be experiencing another time of economic growth and prosperity very shortly.

But this time around that is not the case. The reality is that we are being sucked into an economic black hole from which the U.S. economy will never fully recover.

The problem is debt. Collectively, the U.S. government, the state governments, corporate America and American consumers have accumulated the biggest mountain of debt in the history of the world. Our massive debt binge has financed our tremendous growth and prosperity over the last couple of decades, but now the day of reckoning is here.

And it is going to be painful.

It is getting really hard to find a job in the United States. A total of 6,130,000 U.S. workers had been unemployed for 27 weeks or more in December 2009. That was the most ever since the U.S. government started keeping track of this statistic in 1948. In fact, it is more than double the 2,612,000 U.S. workers who were unemployed for a similar length of time in December 2008. The reality is that once Americans lose their jobs they are increasingly finding it difficult to find new ones. Just check out the chart.



Some areas of the U.S. are already virtually in a state of depression. The mayor of Detroit estimates that the real unemployment rate in his city is now somewhere around 50 percent.



The number of Americans who are going broke is staggering. 1.41 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009 - a 32 percent increase over 2008."




Source:
20 Reasons Why The U.S. Economy Is Dying And Is Simply Not Going To Recover

http://www.businessinsider.com/20-reasons-why-the-us-economy-is-dying-and-is-simply-not-going-to-recover-2010-2

I, UNEMPLOYED: Diary Of A 42-Year Old TV Producer With A Family Of Five Who Got Laid Off 420 Days Ago

http://www.businessinsider.com/i-unemployed-the-diary-of-a-42-year-old-tv-producer-with-a-family-of-five-who-got-laid-off-420-days-ago-2010-2#ixzz0vcCI0etD

America's Ruling Class -- And the Perils of Revolution *New*
By Angelo M. Codevilla
from the July 2010 - August 2010 issue of THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR

http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/16/americas-ruling-class-and-the/print

Excerpt:
" The Agenda: Power

Our ruling class's agenda is power for itself. While it stakes its claim through intellectual-moral pretense, it holds power by one of the oldest and most prosaic of means: patronage and promises thereof. Like left-wing parties always and everywhere, it is a "machine," that is, based on providing tangible rewards to its members. Such parties often provide rank-and-file activists with modest livelihoods and enhance mightily the upper levels' wealth. Because this is so, whatever else such parties might accomplish, they must feed the machine by transferring money or jobs or privileges -- civic as well as economic -- to the party's clients, directly or indirectly. This, incidentally, is close to Aristotle's view of democracy.

Hence our ruling class's standard approach to any and all matters, its solution to any and all problems, is to increase the power of the government -- meaning of those who run it, meaning themselves, to profit those who pay with political support for privileged jobs, contracts, etc.
Hence more power for the ruling class has been our ruling class's solution not just for economic downturns and social ills but also for hurricanes and tornadoes, global cooling and global warming. A priori, one might wonder whether enriching and empowering individuals of a certain kind can make Americans kinder and gentler, much less control the weather. But there can be no doubt that such power and money makes Americans ever more dependent on those who wield it. "

[Xue]

As usual you post political crap without checking the facts from extremist partisan political writers who don't give a damn about the facts.

The Clinton's have been extremely open about their sources of income since Bill Clinton left office in 2001. Bill Clinton earns around $8 million dollars/year just from his speeches. He is one of the most sought after speakers in the world, and has earned as much as $425,000 for a one hour speech. Hillary Clinton has extensive investments, like all the wealthy who know how to invest their money. The Clinton's net worth is well over $100 Million, not counting their charitable foundations. So spending $3 Million on their only daughter's wedding is just like the average family earning $100,000/year spending $3,000 on a wedding (not much of a wedding these days.) And think of all the people who received that $3 Million for their services. It's a good example of the rich spreading their wealth instead of hoarding it. Your jealousy of the rich and powerful will not make you prosperous or happy. You want to listen to losers and you too will become a loser.

Hillary Clinton's financial disclosure report since she has been a Senator and Secretary of State are all PUBLIC. And she is required by law to list all of her spouse's (Bill Clinton) sources of income in these annual public disclosures, as well as her own. Government salaries are not included since they are already public record. There is absolutely no reason for Paul Craig Roberts to not know exactly where Bill Clinton's money is coming from, since it is all public record. He writes this crap to inflame the stupid populace, who he knows will not simply check the facts. Populist pablum for the masses. And you slurp it up without thinking.

Here is Hillary's 2008 Financial Disclosure Report showing the speaking fees earned by Bill Clinton just in one year (and all of the Clinton's investments - interesting reading):

http://pfds.opensecrets.org/N00000019_2007.pdf#page=4

Friend, you don't know me, and you DO NOT KNOW where I live or what I believe or what I SLURP just because I MAKE a post at a forum.

There's an old saying, assume makes an arse out of you and me, friend. So let us not assume, okay?

I just love your ad hom attacks on me. Have I attacked you friend? Why such hate toward my posts? Can we not read something and consider it without resorting to hate and attacks? How do you know that I am "jealous"? Just because I post something for consideration does not mean that I totally agree or disagree with the writer. And you always resort to name calling toward me. Why is that? We can read something, and post about the ideas without resorting to silly and childish name calling, can't we?

[Xue]

WhatMoney.
Oh my gawd, you're killing me....you're absolutely killing me. I love how you always turn everything into some silly right vs. left, demo vs. rep debate or resort to calling me names... hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Just watch George Carlin man, I dare you, then think about what he says...

Just because Paul Craig Roberts was once into politics, doesn't mean that he hasn't woken up. He knows that $12 billion a month on a war against innocent people is wrong. Oh my gawd, you're killing me. Don't try and fix our country, instead attack me. Oh myyyyyyyyyyy

[Xue]

Hahaha! I love how you attack me, but don't even watch George Carlin, and call me names!!!

Man, what's you're deal? Why attack me? Why not attack the global elite that are jerking us around? Why not realize that the owners of this country want to control us and see us as slaves, no matter what the color or sex, and transcend petty politics? It's not politics. It's the global elite. Watch George Carlin, I dare you!

GEORGE CARLIN an extremist????????????????????????????????????????? ??????/


hahahahaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DID YOU LISTEN TO WHAT GEORGE CARLIN SAID?

"The owners of this country know the truth: It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it...I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote -- who did not even leave the house on Election Day -- am in no way responsible for that these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created...They don't want a population capable of critical thinking", "they want obedient workers", "and now they want your social security..."

I can't post the link because George Carlin says "bad" words. But I dare you to google it on youtube or liveleak...I dare you, then come back here and call me names!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

George Carlin:

There’s a reason that education ****s, and it’s the same reason it will never ever ever be fixed. It’s never going to get any better, don’t look for it. Be happy with what you’ve got. Because the owners of this country don’t want that. I’m talking about the real owners now, the big, wealthy, business interests that control all things and make the big decisions.

Forget the politicians, they’re irrelevant.

Politicians are put there to give you that idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations, and they’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the State Houses, and the City Halls. They’ve got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies so they control just about all the news and information you get to hear.

They’ve got you by the ****s.

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else. But I’ll tell you what they don’t want—they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interest. You know something, they don’t want people that are smart enough to sit around their kitchen table and figure out how badly they’re getting *****d by a system that threw them overboard 30 ******g years ago.

They don’t want that, you know what they want?

They want obedient workers, obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly ******r jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it.

And now they’re coming for your social security money.

They want your ******g retirement money; they want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later because they own this ******g place. It’s a big club and you ain’t in it! You and I are not in the Big Club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you in the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to believe, what to think and what to buy.

The table is tilted folks, the game is rigged.

Nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard working people, white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard working people continue, these are people of modest means, continue to elect these rich *********s who don’t give a **** about them. They don’t give a **** about you. They don’t give a **** about…give a **** about you! They don’t care about you at all, at all, at all.

And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care.

That’s what the owners count on, the fact that Americans are and will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white, and blue **** that’s being jammed up their *******s everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth, it’s called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.

But yeah, go ahead and post on this forum and call me names and write "As usual you post political crap without checking the facts from extremist partisan political writers who don't give a damn about the facts. " hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



Paul Craig Roberts? Extremist? LOL! LOL! OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Craig_Roberts

Paul Craig Roberts (born April 3, 1939, in Atlanta, Georgia) is an economist and a nationally syndicated columnist for Creators Syndicate. He served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration earning fame as a co-founder of Reaganomics."[1] He is a former editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and Scripps Howard News Service. Roberts has been a critic of both Democratic and Republican administrations.

He has written or co-written eight books, contributed chapters to numerous books and has published many articles in journals of scholarship. He has testified before congressional committees on 30 occasions on issues of economic policy. His writings frequently appear on OpEdNews, Antiwar.com, VDARE.com. Lew Rockwell's web site, CounterPunch, and the American Free Press. Roberts has been featured as a guest on the Political Cesspool radio show.[2]

An unemployed Atlanta woman is trying something different to get a job -- billboards.

Lorraine Ankarstran is an unemployed paralegal who says she's been looking for several months but can't find a job.

She recently turned to placing ads on billboards around the city.

For the next month, each one will feature her picture as well as her e-mail address.

The ads run 10 seconds out of every minute 24 hours a day.

The ads have been out for about a week.

Ankarstran will not say how much she paid for the billboards, but according to Lamar Advertising, it costs on average, $3,000 for an ad on a single billboard.

Source:

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=85213&catid=52

[andy158]

Even the "wealthy" are feeling the brunt of this recession. I was reading today how country clubs are now losing 15% of their membership due to members trimming their budgets. Money is not begetting money anymore due to the lousy interest rates and unpredictable stock markets. The people who don't punch clocks are starting to sweat a little. Buffy just might have to sell her Beemer!.

[Tman]

Logan, I guess I wasn't completely clear in my post. Those who are unemployed will not have jobs to go back to and very few new jobs are going to be created as the big corporations have replaced those workers with more productive methods and/or processes. The government cannot continue to extend unemplyment benefits forever. When the benefits finally run out, all of the money the unemployed now spend - will disappear and so will the consumption. that goes along with it. Whether you want to admit it or not we are all in a recession, its just that the government has been able to mask it over with ever extended unemployment benefits. I hate to tell you this but we are all in this together. If you somehow feel that you will be able to escape the consequences of our inability to face our problems, then you are in for a rude awakening. Not one of the industries you cite as examples of "good times" are likely or even capable of pulling the employment numbers back up.

[Logan]

your math is WRONG- with an unemployment rate of 11% that would result in 89% of people have jobs (100-11=89)... not the 94% you reference... Math is a lost skill for some people on this board I guess...

I guess you didn't understand what I was saying...I know it's a little advanced for some.

[Logan]

Logan, I am a little late to the party but two observations if I may.
First off something that you should understand is that corporate profits do NOT equal economic recovery. Many of these corporations are making their money from overseas investments, sales or production. The record profits of certain corporations have little to do with the economic health of the nation at large. The jobs that many have lost in this recession are gone, never to return. The Great Recession was not neccessarily the cause of this situation, it merely coincided with the larger trend of gains in productivity outstripping the economic demands for labor. In other words technology is advancing faster than we can keep up. Ford doesn't have to hire an additional 25,000 workers to make more cars. The robots they now use just make the cars quicker. Secondly, when unemployment went from 5% to 11% that is not a 6% increase that is actually a 120% increase in the unemployment rate. I don't know what line of work you are in. There are definitely segments of the economy which are doing quite well, as is always the case. But please consider that we now live in a post industrial America, the age of mass employment is coming to an end. If we don't prepare for it soon, we will all be sorry.

Airline revenues up--full flights
RV sales are up
Auto sales are up
Tech sales are up
My neighbor is the VP for the US operations for a ski company and their orders are up
Apple sales 1 million Ipads in 28 days
Tech is up
The suppliers for these companies are doing well
CEO's are saying things look good.

The unemployed are in a recession but the US is not.

Logan

[Xue]

As usual you post political crap without checking the facts from extremist partisan political writers who don't give a damn about the facts.

hahahahahahaaahaaa

oh my...hahaa



hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

lol!

[WhatMoney]

BTW the Clinton's combined net worth is estimated to be over $250 Million.

And here's another perspective to the story:

http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/...ng/#more-69445

[Tman]

Logan, I am a little late to the party but two observations if I may.
First off something that you should understand is that corporate profits do NOT equal economic recovery. Many of these corporations are making their money from overseas investments, sales or production. The record profits of certain corporations have little to do with the economic health of the nation at large. The jobs that many have lost in this recession are gone, never to return. The Great Recession was not neccessarily the cause of this situation, it merely coincided with the larger trend of gains in productivity outstripping the economic demands for labor. In other words technology is advancing faster than we can keep up. Ford doesn't have to hire an additional 25,000 workers to make more cars. The robots they now use just make the cars quicker. Secondly, when unemployment went from 5% to 11% that is not a 6% increase that is actually a 120% increase in the unemployment rate. I don't know what line of work you are in. There are definitely segments of the economy which are doing quite well, as is always the case. But please consider that we now live in a post industrial America, the age of mass employment is coming to an end. If we don't prepare for it soon, we will all be sorry.

[WhatMoney]

Banksters are Coming for Your Retirement Next

http://www.activistpost.com/2010/07/banskters-are-coming-for-your.html

...
Before we attend to the poor political judgment of such an extravagant affair during times of economic distress, let us wonder aloud where a poor boy who became governor of Arkansas and president of the United States got such a fortune that he can blow $3,000,000 on a wedding.

The American people did not take up a collection to reward him for his service to them.

Where did the money come from? Who was he really serving during his eight years in office?

As usual you post political crap without checking the facts from extremist partisan political writers who don't give a damn about the facts.

The Clinton's have been extremely open about their sources of income since Bill Clinton left office in 2001. Bill Clinton earns around $8 million dollars/year just from his speeches. He is one of the most sought after speakers in the world, and has earned as much as $425,000 for a one hour speech. Hillary Clinton has extensive investments, like all the wealthy who know how to invest their money. The Clinton's net worth is well over $100 Million, not counting their charitable foundations. So spending $3 Million on their only daughter's wedding is just like the average family earning $100,000/year spending $3,000 on a wedding (not much of a wedding these days.) And think of all the people who received that $3 Million for their services. It's a good example of the rich spreading their wealth instead of hoarding it. Your jealousy of the rich and powerful will not make you prosperous or happy. You want to listen to losers and you too will become a loser.

Hillary Clinton's financial disclosure report since she has been a Senator and Secretary of State are all PUBLIC. And she is required by law to list all of her spouse's (Bill Clinton) sources of income in these annual public disclosures, as well as her own. Government salaries are not included since they are already public record. There is absolutely no reason for Paul Craig Roberts to not know exactly where Bill Clinton's money is coming from, since it is all public record. He writes this crap to inflame the stupid populace, who he knows will not simply check the facts. Populist pablum for the masses. And you slurp it up without thinking.

Here is Hillary's 2008 Financial Disclosure Report showing the speaking fees earned by Bill Clinton just in one year (and all of the Clinton's investments - interesting reading):

http://pfds.opensecrets.org/N00000019_2007.pdf#page=4

[Logan]

My 401k is through my employer and sponsored by Wells Fargo. No choice of sponsors. The only options I have is to switch investments into limited catgories all of which are loosing money. The only reason I participate is they match a small percentage of what I contribute. Like many other middle class people, I can't afford to purchase stock and fund a couple of IRA's. This is my sole means of retirement other than the Social Security that will be gone by the time I retire. Go figure!

I'm in the same boat. My 401K is run by JPMorgan. If I were to follow JPMorgan's advice I would be negative but I seeked out the help of a professional money manager who advises where I should put my money. This company does not have access to my 401K so once a month I adjust my holdings myself based on the advice given.

FYI...The newsletter had me in all cash at one time during the crash. We were down about 15% sometime during that period but up a ridiculous amount went we got back into the market during the recovery.

Good luck,

Logan

And I have limited options also. In fact, my money manager criticizes my company and JPM over the restrictions they impose on my 401K because 'they' think they no what's best.