IF Society broke down for any reason, War, Storm, Inserection, how would you prepare?

[banca rotta]

Stocking up on SPAM as we speak.
Just had to get that in there somewhere.

On a more serious note... what is the best way to save water? Stupid question... but how long will bottled water hold up in plastic jugs?

Summary

Every home should have a supply of water stored for at least three days of emergency use. Store one gallon per person per day, and one quart per small pet. The water should be either municipal or bottled water, because these sources are inspected and tested regularly for many different contaminants. The container used for storing water must be clean, and made for food and water use. Household bleach is the only disinfectant needed in the water for storage. Rotate or use the stored water supply every six months.

With only a small amount of effort and money, your family can be prepared with this most important necessity: a safe, adequate supply of drinking water during any natural disaster or power outage.

http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/programs/extension/publicat/wqwm/emergwatersuppl.html

[bcohen]

Stocking up on SPAM as we speak...

Don't worry, the Internet is full of that! (Sorry, couldn't resist)

But seriously, it is a good idea to stockpile canned foods such as soups, stews, pasta in sauce, beans and potatoes, as well as other canned vegetables. Canned or bottled pasta sauce and dry pasta also lasts a long time. I would also stockpile cases of bottled water, juices, and nutrition drinks.

Although having these things on hand would help with disaster preparedness, the main reason why I stockpile food is because I like to take advantage of the really good sales (which only happen a few times in the year) to help keep costs down.

[IamOld]

Actually Bush did say it...alas.

I agree with you that the Bill of Rights has been trashed to say the least. BUT - if we look to Europe of TODAY, we can see societies that respect and encourage individual freedom WITH a significant social safety net. We cannot survive as individuals only. The social safety net allows, I would say, individuals to be more free as they don't have to worry about - well - being in this forum for medical debt for one thing.

I do agree with you pretty much, except that providing for the "general welfare" of the nation doesn't turn us into a dictatorship. FEAR and FEAR used by the elites for control, does and can.

I enjoy your posts, Iamold, but the dividing line is not conservative and liberal, state capitalism or plain capitalism. It is collectivism vs individualism. What is unique about our country than the rest of the countries is the Bill of Rights. We value individual freedom. Collectivist mentality has been destroying our country from within for years. Social democracy is simply a form of collectivist thought and mentality. We vote to do what is best for the group even if it means giving up the rights of an individual here and there. Our Founding Fathers would turn over in their collective graves at this notion. President George Bush was quoted as saying "the Constitution is nothing more than a ****piece of paper." Whether he actually said that or not (I believe he did), his actions were always collective in nature. He doesn't care about individuals rights. He will torture people in the name of doing what is best for America (the group). Sorry, but I think that is our defining moment in History. We people do nothing while tyrants like George Bush and Barrack Obama run rough shod over our individual rights, and they get away with it because they are convincing us that they do these things for our benefit.

[mlsj2009]

MLSJ - I think you're very correct about society "ending' in a whimper rather than a "bang." Yet, I wouldn't put social-democracy in the same bag as soviet-style (or Chinese) style communism, fascism, or state capitalism.

I have ZERO - and I underline ZERO doubt that, for example, Japan would survive, and so would Continental Europe. I leave out the UK because the gov't sponsored social safety net is in tatters as it is here.

I enjoy your posts, Iamold, but the dividing line is not conservative and liberal, state capitalism or plain capitalism. It is collectivism vs individualism. What is unique about our country than the rest of the countries is the Bill of Rights. We value individual freedom. Collectivist mentality has been destroying our country from within for years. Social democracy is simply a form of collectivist thought and mentality. We vote to do what is best for the group even if it means giving up the rights of an individual here and there. Our Founding Fathers would turn over in their collective graves at this notion. President George Bush was quoted as saying "the Constitution is nothing more than a ****piece of paper." Whether he actually said that or not (I believe he did), his actions were always collective in nature. He doesn't care about individuals rights. He will torture people in the name of doing what is best for America (the group). Sorry, but I think that is our defining moment in History. We people do nothing while tyrants like George Bush and Barrack Obama run rough shod over our individual rights, and they get away with it because they are convincing us that they do these things for our benefit.

[keepsmiling]

Stocking up on SPAM as we speak.
Just had to get that in there somewhere.

On a more serious note... what is the best way to save water? Stupid question... but how long will bottled water hold up in plastic jugs?

[mlsj2009]

What would happen?

I am a realist, not a doomsdayer by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it is wise to prepare for any bad times, like the break down of government or a collapse of the economy. Historically, that happened in the 1930s during the Depression. Less chaos than you would expect happened. Instead of turning on each other, most turned inward toward their community, friends, and relatives.

The same most likely will happen again in the case of a similar scenario. Governments won't stop existing overnight and the collapse won't be as sudden like you see in the movies where there is a sudden catastrophic event happening across the country that immediately throws us into chaos (ie. like a nuclear holocaust, or Yellowstone blowing up etc.).

No, change comes much more subtle. What I think most of you are really feeling right now is that subtle change before a storm. It is not likely, barring a catastrophic event, the US will stop functioning so that we all have to rely on our survival skills. But, there can be another complete collapse of the stock market, we can default on our national debt, unemployment can rise to 50% or more, inflation along with interest can sky rocket, and our dollar may devalue to almost nothing. All these things can happen suddenly, but most likely, they will not happen at the same time if they do happen at all. Preparation and avoidance are both simple processes.

To prepare for such financial calamities, you might consider investments in precious metals, short term bonds, foreign currencies and the like. All of these have historically protected peoples' assets from inflation and high interest, and the devaluation of the dollar. All of these instruments helped people survive the first Depression and will help you survive another one.

Avoiding these financial calamities is also a simple process as well, but is not happening because of political greed and corruption. Our GDP is $14 trillion a year right now, about the same as our national dept. We turn over the GDP about 7 times a year. A 1% sir-tax on the goods and services in the US with no exemptions for anyone will produce $980 billion in one year. Not rocket science. We could technically run all local, state, and federal budgets on that amount (not counting national debt) and not have an income tax, property tax, or any other sales tax.

Why don't our politicians not do this? Control. Big business is in bed with the politicians who receive lobbying money from that group, and big business can control the masses under the existing system. The middle-class and poor class suffer the most under this system while CEOs across the nation whoop it up and live their hedonistic lifestyle of choice. Less than 5% of this nations population controls over 90% of the wealth. Go figure.

Why should they give up all of that control just for a bunch of poor ignorant citizens? You want to really stop this?

Remember this. Survivalists play into big business and the politicians hands. Survivalists are loyal, quiet, scared, and terrorized with every ultra conservative broadcast about potential calamities. You dutifully await for the holocaust, but again, the holocaust isn't likely to happen. That is why China and those other countries are not worried about dooms day. They don't have ultra conservative indoctrination taking place over the air waves bombarding their citizens with potential calamities. Instead, they simply tell their people, the party is in control and everything is ok whether it is or not.

What will happen if we continue the way we are is that unemployment will rise, people will huddle together, soup lines will form, and the masses in America will await their next great political savior.

What would stop all of this? Forming a viable third party that emphasizes individual rights instead of collectivist mentality. When we as individuals do what is best for the group, who gets to decide what that is? When your individual rights are protected, your rights stop at the end of your nose because you cannot violate the rights of the other individuals. Unlike collectivist thought where someone must suffer for the benefit of the group, all individual rights are protected so all society is protected. No one is asked to give up their rights for the benefit of others. Therefore, everyone can survive.

By the way, Collectivism leads to every kind of political system that is contrary to our Constitution. Socialism, communism, and fascism are just a few ideas spawned from collectivist mentality. Most nationalism also entice its citizens to be moved by what someone decides is best for the group as a whole, thus, we get into wars unnecessarily that way. Instead of doing what our founding fathers suggested in the first place, make no alliance with any nation, we make alliances with all nations buying our vassals with tax dollars. And for what purpose? Not for the citizens of the US, but for big business and their political cohorts who run our governments and have their pockets lined. Follow the money trail.

I liked John Kennedy but he was a collectivist. He once said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." - collectivist mentality. Every President since, for the exception of maybe Jimmy Carter, has been a collectivist. They have ruled the masses by invoking a sense of terror of not doing what is best for the group, and that group is America. In effect, they have used our national pride against us to manipulate the masses into doing what a small group wants them to do, all in the name of what is best for the group, don't you know. If we protected individual rights, the group would be much better off in the first place, and there would be less need for war.

What would happen to our economy if there was no sales tax (other than one use tax), no income tax, and no property tax. Do you think individuals and businesses would prosper under those conditions? What about big business? Wouldn't it prosper too? So, why isn't big business for no income tax, sales tax or property tax?
Simple. They can't stand the competition. It is all about control. They want to keep the average individual subservient to their demands and wishes, plain and simple. Under the existing system, their money buys votes and the laws they buy favor them. If you don't believe me, what was the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 really all about?

[IamOld]

MLSJ - I think you're very correct about society "ending' in a whimper rather than a "bang." Yet, I wouldn't put social-democracy in the same bag as soviet-style (or Chinese) style communism, fascism, or state capitalism.

I have ZERO - and I underline ZERO doubt that, for example, Japan would survive, and so would Continental Europe. I leave out the UK because the gov't sponsored social safety net is in tatters as it is here.

[mlsj2009]

What would happen?

I am a realist, not a doomsdayer by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it is wise to prepare for any bad times, like the break down of government or a collapse of the economy. Historically, that happened in the 1930s during the Depression. Less chaos than you would expect happened. Instead of turning on each other, most turned inward toward their community, friends, and relatives.

The same most likely will happen again in the case of a similar scenario. Governments won't stop existing overnight and the collapse won't be as sudden like you see in the movies where there is a sudden catastrophic happening across the country that immediately throws us into chaos (ie. like a nuclear holocaust, or Yellowstone blowing up etc.).

No, change comes much more subtle. What I think most of you are really feeling right now is that subtle change before a storm. It is not likely, barring a catastrophic event, the US will stop functioning so that we all have to rely on our survival skills, but there can be another complete collapse of the stock market, we can default on our national debt, unemployment can rise to 50% or more, inflation along with interest can sky rocket, and our dollar may devalue to almost nothing. All these things can happen suddenly, but most likely, they will not happen at the same time if they do happen at all. Preparation and avoidance are both simple processes.

To prepare for such financial calamities, investments might be in precious metals, short term bonds, foreign currencies and the like. All of these have historically protected peoples' assets from inflation and high interest, and the devaluation of the dollar. All of these instruments helped people survive the first Depression and will help you survive another one.

Avoiding these financial calamities is also a simple process as well, but is not happening because of political greed and corruption. Our GDP is $14 trillion a year right now, about the same as our national dept. We turn over the GDP about 7 times a year. A 1% sir-tax on the goods and services in the US with no one exemptions for anyone will produce $980 billion in one year. Not rocket science. We could technically run all local, state, and federal budgets on that amount (not counting national debt) and not have an income tax, property tax, or any other sales tax.

Why don't our politicians not do this? Control. Big business is in bed with the politicians who receive lobbying money from that group, and big business can control the masses under the existing system. The middle-class and poor class suffer the most under this system while CEOs across the nation whoop it up and live their hedonistic lifestyle of choice. Less than 5% of this nations population controls over 90% of the wealth. Go figure.

Why should they give up all of that just for a bunch of poor ignorant citizens? You want to really stop this?

Survivalists play into big business and the politicians hands. You are quiet, scared, and terrorized with every ultra conservative broadcast. You dutifully await for the holocaust, but again, it isn't likely to happen. That is why China and those other countries are not worried.

What will happen if we continue the way we are is that unemployment will rise, people will huddle together, soup lines will form, and the masses in America will await their next great political savior.
What would stop all of this? Forming a viable third party that emphasizes individual rights instead of collectivist mentality. When we as individuals do what is best for the group, who gets to decide what that is? When your individual rights are protected, your rights stop at the end of your nose because you cannot violate the rights of the other individuals. Thus, all society is protected. No one is asked to give up their rights for the benefit of others. Therefore, everyone can survive.

By the way, Collectivism leads to every kind of political system that is contrary to our Constitution. Socialism, communism, and fascism are just a few ideas spawned from collectivist mentality. Most nationalism also entices its citizens to be moved by what someone decides is best for the group as a whole, thus, we get into wars unnecessarily that way. Instead of doing what our founding fathers suggested in the first place, make no alliance with any nation, we make alliances with all nations buying our vassals with tax dollars and for what purpose? Not for the citizens of the US, but for big business and their political cohorts who run our governments and have their pockets lined.

I liked John Kennedy but he was a collectivist. He said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." - collectivist mentality. Every President since, for the exception of maybe Jimmy Carter, has been a collectivist ruling the masses with terror of not doing what is best for the group. Nonsense! If we protected individual rights, the group would be much better off.

What would happen to our economy if there was no sales tax (other than one use tax), not income tax, and no property tax. Do you think the individuals would prosper under those conditions? What about big business? Wouldn't it prosper too? So, why doesn't big business go for this no income tax, sales tax or property tax?

Simple. They can't stand the competition. It is all about control. They want to keep the average individual subservient to their demands and wishes, plain and simple. Under the existing system, their money buys votes and the laws the buy favor them. If you don't believe me, what was the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 all about?

[AngelinaCatHub]

The best argument for preperations

I came across this movie last night on youtube looking for 2012 stuff. I just could not put it down but warning this is 2.5 hrs. Don't start it unless you have the time because it is more than enlightening.

No it is not biased against 'Bammy but points to all the crooks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

'Hub

[IamOld]

OMG.

Of course there is an argument to be made that if enough people BELIEVE this will happen, it may become a self-fulfilling (pardon the unintended pun) prophecy.

I saw this preview last night on TV.

"TLC REVEALS THE SHOCKING LIFESTYLES OF FAMILIES PREPARING FOR THE END OF THE WORLD IN LIVIN’ FOR THE APOCALYPSE"

-- One-Hour Special Premieres Sunday, August 28 at 10 PM ET/PT --

[Freddy03]

I saw this preview last night on TV.

"TLC REVEALS THE SHOCKING LIFESTYLES OF FAMILIES PREPARING FOR THE END OF THE WORLD IN LIVIN’ FOR THE APOCALYPSE"

-- One-Hour Special Premieres Sunday, August 28 at 10 PM ET/PT --

[Pandora]

I stand corrected on the 6.2 but I'm hearing all kind of numbers. No one killed to date. Pray none are. As to your wine Ms. Pandora, I have mine, I keep a gallon a day per adult in my emergency plan. What's with this water thing?

The thread was meant to summon up anything at all. BUT, what an example of what this thread is all about. Also, remember, you could be out of town, I came up with this brilliant idea. Why not have a knapsack (hikers bag??) with an emergency get-away kit in the trunk of your car. 'Hub

Actually 'Hub - we have 3 of the ER kits (in backpacks) and they're great for those "just in case" situations. Last night after we got the third aftershock (1st real strong one -4.2), it was time to get into gear, threw the backpacks along with 2 days of clothing, medications, cat food, cash etc into the RV. Just enough to last 2 days or so should we get another quake and the house be too damaged to enter. Still no power down the road - banks and all stores closed (hence why we put cash in our ER kit); we're lucky as we usually keep power when everyone else loses it. Hopefully today will be calm...

Thanks Tobee! Mmmm speaking of wine - try Duplin Carolina Red - its a muscadine wine and boy oh boy..will it get you in T-R-O-U-B-L-E quickly! Goes down much too easy but sure did settle the nerves

[tobee43]

Well, when we leased our farm out to a flower grower, one of his Mexican workers swore that Thunderbird was the best, but I preferred 20/20 on a cold freeze. One half pint of that and you would be warm for an hour. Couldn't walk well but at least warm.

now that is disgusting!!! in florida to try to get warm....what on a 100 degree day with a sip of thunderbird yuck! and thunderbird i KNOW has no grapes LOL!!

[AngelinaCatHub]

RIPPLE!!! I KNOW RIPPLE!!!!ROFL!!!

ahhhhhhhhh...my old highschool days behind the rec building in the park, i couldnt even keep it down for 2 minutes without it coming right back up!!! my favorite was the bubbles. how about Red Mountain Wine...i don't even think that had a grape in it

Well, when we leased our farm out to a flower grower, one of his Mexican workers swore that Thunderbird was the best, but I preferred 20/20 on a cold freeze. One half pint of that and you would be warm for an hour. Couldn't walk well but at least warm.

[tobee43]

RIPPLE!!! I KNOW RIPPLE!!!!ROFL!!!

ahhhhhhhhh...my old highschool days behind the rec building in the park, i couldnt even keep it down for 2 minutes without it coming right back up!!! my favorite was the bubbles. how about Red Mountain Wine...i don't even think that had a grape in it