My opinion on hiring an attorney for your chapter 13 case

[ariesfire]

Bajan Looks like your on a 3 year plan, I believe if you are below the median income it could be different. Good Luck two years and 4 months more doesn't seem to bad, keep it up and it will be over before you know it.

[TheBajan]

Wife and I finished our pre discharge education course, Sent certificates to the court. Plus official document 23. I am doing these things myself since I have lost confidence in my attorney. I do not want to wait to see if my attorney does what he is supposed to. I sent my attorney the copies of documentation I sent to court. Will see if he follows through on the motion to discharge. Attorney should return my call but he refuses to contact me.
Since I have stated that a lone attorney (at least in my case) has created undue stress I have decided to file docs myself. I called the court and clerk said that it was fine and I could file documents myself. Attorneys that disrespect their clients by not communicating are a major annoyance and next time will make sure a communication clause is in the agreement. Keep in mind I only called him once or twice last year and would not have taken only a minute or two to answer my question. Not happy with him but not mad enough to complain to the bar.

This is very good information for me. I'm also in the Eastern District but I have a little over two years to go. My atty has been good and everything is moving along smoothly so far... He sometimes needs a little prodding in the communication department but right now there's nothing to communicate. I'm anxious to see if our payment will go up after our trustee gets our tax return. We did have an income increase during the past year.

Michigan is different from most of the other states in that our plan period doesn't start until confirmation as apposed to filing date. My understanding is that we won't get back the extra payments (in my case, two) and like you, I'm okay with that. I'm just looking forward to the day this is finally over.

Congrats on getting this far. I can't wait for your hamster dance!

Cheers!

[ariesfire]

Wife and I finished our pre discharge education course, Sent certificates to the court. Plus official document 23. I am doing these things myself since I have lost confidence in my attorney. I do not want to wait to see if my attorney does what he is supposed to. I sent my attorney the copies of documentation I sent to court. Will see if he follows through on the motion to discharge. Attorney should return my call but he refuses to contact me.
Since I have stated that a lone attorney (at least in my case) has created undue stress I have decided to file docs myself. I called the court and clerk said that it was fine and I could file documents myself. Attorneys that disrespect their clients by not communicating are a major annoyance and next time will make sure a communication clause is in the agreement. Keep in mind I only called him once or twice last year and would not have taken only a minute or two to answer my question. Not happy with him but not mad enough to complain to the bar.

[despritfreya]

if the work requested is actually a plan modification to begin with, then in theory it should be easy to include the attorney fee in that, correct?

goon,

Yes I would imagine most attnys would put the fees into the modification. When doing modified plans we will see where our post confirmation fees are and then, unless the client wants otherwise, simply incorporate them into the modification. This actually costs more to the client due to the trustee’s percentage, but 99% of the time the client would rather not have to deal with a bill from our office and then try to figure how to pay it in addition to the plan payments.

Des.

[ariesfire]

1. If you do not have a copy of the fee agreement and since the attny appears to be non-responsive, there would be nothing wrong with you showing up at his office to get a copy.

2. I would agree that taking steps to "finalize" the bk so that a discharge can be entered is part of the attny's duties. In my district, once payments are completed and the Trustee files his notice of completed case 2 things must be done. The debtor must take that second credit counseling class and get the Certificate to me for filing and the debtor must sign a form stating that he/she is entitled to a Chapter 13 discharge. Once I see the notice of completed case, I typically send out the form with a cover letter to sign and return it to me along with the Certificate for that second course (if the second course had not been previously done). The time it takes for me to do this last bit of "work" is minimal and I usually book it at "no charge" (we bill hourly).

3. Yes, the attny is in it for the "long hall" so long as he/she is "attorney of record" but that does not necessarily mean post Confirmation work goes "uncompensated". It just depends upon the fee agreement which not only should state when the representation "ends", it should also state exactly what tasks the fees paid cover.

Des.

I do not believe there will be a problem and he will do what is required. I am also aware of the financial course we must take, and the doc. for domestic payment statement. We are letting it(chapter13) run it's course now and I do not expect to hear from my attorney unless we hit a snag. I appreciate that attorneys do not work pro bono and I have always been ready to pay him more fees if required. Just trying to avoid problems, it seems anxiety is more acute at this point.

[ariesfire]

Hey Des, if the work requested is actually a plan modification to begin with, then in theory it should be easy to include the attorney fee in that, correct?

I am going to have to file a modification here soon, (have child #4 coming any day now, and there have been some other financial changes (rent increase) that by their selves were not worth filing a modification over). My Attorney will charge something like $500 for the mod (I got one included modification which I already used). I thought I was going to have to come up with that out of pocket but if there is a way to roll it in the plan since the plan is being modified anyway that could be very helpful as I don't really have an extra $500 laying around.


As always thanks for your help!!

The trustee informed me that attorney fees would be rolled into the plan without an increase in payments. My two cents.

[ariesfire]

I believe that is a Michigan thing in that it is 60 months from the confirmation as opposed to 60 months from filing like most of the rest of the country.
Typically it cannot extend beyond 60 months unless you did something to cause a shortfall in the plan ( missed/deferred a payment or something like that)

We are perfect on payments and yes it is from confirmation, but I sincerely doubt I will receive any credits for the three months of additional payments. At this point I would rather pay more just to get out of the clutches of the legal system (Chapter13)

[ariesfire]

1. If you do not have a copy of the fee agreement and since the attny appears to be non-responsive, there would be nothing wrong with you showing up at his office to get a copy.

2. I would agree that taking steps to "finalize" the bk so that a discharge can be entered is part of the attny's duties. In my district, once payments are completed and the Trustee files his notice of completed case 2 things must be done. The debtor must take that second credit counseling class and get the Certificate to me for filing and the debtor must sign a form stating that he/she is entitled to a Chapter 13 discharge. Once I see the notice of completed case, I typically send out the form with a cover letter to sign and return it to me along with the Certificate for that second course (if the second course had not been previously done). The time it takes for me to do this last bit of "work" is minimal and I usually book it at "no charge" (we bill hourly).

3. Yes, the attny is in it for the "long hall" so long as he/she is "attorney of record" but that does not necessarily mean post Confirmation work goes "uncompensated". It just depends upon the fee agreement which not only should state when the representation "ends", it should also state exactly what tasks the fees paid cover.

Des.

I do not believe there will be a problem and he will do what is required. I am also aware of the financial course we must take, and the doc. for domestic payment statement. We are letting it(chapter13) run it's course now and I do not expect to hear from my attorney unless we hit a snag. I appreciate that attorneys do not work pro bono and I have always been ready to pay him more fees if required. Just trying to avoid problems, it seems anxiety is more acute at this point.

[goon]

BTW evidently the sixty months is a guideline but can be extended if need be.

I believe that is a Michigan thing in that it is 60 months from the confirmation as opposed to 60 months from filing like most of the rest of the country.
Typically it cannot extend beyond 60 months unless you did something to cause a shortfall in the plan ( missed/deferred a payment or something like that)

[ariesfire]

Congratulations for completing your Chapter 13, are you in the Eastern District of Michigan. It is amazing that it took so long for confirmation and it looks as though you paid an extra 6 months. What happens to the additional money, I heard earlier that a debtor could use this money throughout the plan if they felt it was needed. How much communication did you have with your trustee

Yes we are, we will not receive any return on monies paid in. We are above the state median income so trustee and creditors will receive any funds left. I did not communicate much with trustee, asked a few basic questions but the paralegal was helpful, he told me what we needed to do. I would not advise anyone to call the trustee before they confer with their attorney. I only asked what they needed for a smooth discharge, these where questions relating to financials on the network13 system. So I am doing what they want me to, all of which is doable. BTW evidently the sixty months is a guideline but can be extended if need be.

[goon]

Not correct. . . If the work requested was not covered in the fee agreement, the attny charges the client. That new fee may or may not be paid through the Plan. Just depends if it is worth modifying the Plan to add the funding. Most of the time it is too costly to modify an already approved Plan so payment arrangements outside the Plan are made between the client and the attny.

Hey Des, if the work requested is actually a plan modification to begin with, then in theory it should be easy to include the attorney fee in that, correct?

I am going to have to file a modification here soon, (have child #4 coming any day now, and there have been some other financial changes (rent increase) that by their selves were not worth filing a modification over). My Attorney will charge something like $500 for the mod (I got one included modification which I already used). I thought I was going to have to come up with that out of pocket but if there is a way to roll it in the plan since the plan is being modified anyway that could be very helpful as I don't really have an extra $500 laying around.

As always thanks for your help!!

[despritfreya]

desprit....You very well could be correct, but since he will not communicate with us how are we to know? I cannot find our agreement to verify this, however I was under the belief the attorney is in it for the long haul.

1. If you do not have a copy of the fee agreement and since the attny appears to be non-responsive, there would be nothing wrong with you showing up at his office to get a copy.

2. I would agree that taking steps to "finalize" the bk so that a discharge can be entered is part of the attny's duties. In my district, once payments are completed and the Trustee files his notice of completed case 2 things must be done. The debtor must take that second credit counseling class and get the Certificate to me for filing and the debtor must sign a form stating that he/she is entitled to a Chapter 13 discharge. Once I see the notice of completed case, I typically send out the form with a cover letter to sign and return it to me along with the Certificate for that second course (if the second course had not been previously done). The time it takes for me to do this last bit of "work" is minimal and I usually book it at "no charge" (we bill hourly).

3. Yes, the attny is in it for the "long hall" so long as he/she is "attorney of record" but that does not necessarily mean post Confirmation work goes "uncompensated". It just depends upon the fee agreement which not only should state when the representation "ends", it should also state exactly what tasks the fees paid cover.

Des.

[magic13]

Congratulations for completing your Chapter 13, are you in the Eastern District of Michigan. It is amazing that it took so long for confirmation and it looks as though you paid an extra 6 months. What happens to the additional money, I heard earlier that a debtor could use this money throughout the plan if they felt it was needed. How much communication did you have with your trustee

[ariesfire]

ariesfire, that is awful when you can't get an answer to your questions. I went with a one man firm, who is supposed to be according to another lawyer, the best in the area. I'm now about 1/2 way through my chapter 13, but I have only had a few questions after my 341. It also looked like according to the signed "agreement" I have with my attorney, that I'm only covered up until Confirmation. However, I've had a couple of questions answered, and do seem to get a quick response by e-mail.

Congratulations on completing your 13.

That may be the case with us also, however I do not know where our agreement is, but I am willing to pay him personally for advice and have left messages to that affect.

[ariesfire]

Not correct. . . If the work requested was not covered in the fee agreement, the attny charges the client. That new fee may or may not be paid through the Plan. Just depends if it is worth modifying the Plan to add the funding. Most of the time it is too costly to modify an already approved Plan so payment arrangements outside the Plan are made between the client and the attny.
I have no objection to paying him more money, all he has to do is tell me how much.


Not necessarily the case. In my “professional” opinion (for whatever that is worth), you will find sole practitioners are more responsive to their clients since they take a personal interest in each case. That is not to say that you won’t find ones that are idiots but that goes with larger firms as well. I believe your best recourse if your attny is not communicating with you is a call to the State Bar.

You would think that is true, and I agree that many lone attorneys are more responsive, however it is not in my case.

Congratulations. A job well done.

Des.

Thanks, it has been actually been 63 months of payments so far and 66 months since the first filing in July 2007, confirmed in 2 Feb 2008.