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    We recieved letters from attorneys... and we need advice.

    My wife and I received letters from attorneys representing the holder/servicer of our mortgage - U.S. Bank. The letter was postmarked February 11th, 2011.

    The Letter: ‘This law office has been instructed to institute foreclosure proceedings. You have the right to dispute this debt, by notifying in writing, within 30 days from the receipt of this notice that the debt or any portion thereof is disputed. Upon receipt of your written request the law office will obtain a verification of the debt or if the debt is founded upon a judgment, a copy of the judgment, and forward such verification to me. If they receive no written request from me in 30 days they will assume that the debt is valid.’

    The letter then goes on... ‘If the original creditor is different from the creditor named above (U.S. Bank National Association) then upon my written request (also within 30 days of receipt of this same notice) I will be provided with the name and address of the original creditor.’

    Background: We first met with a lawyer in January. Our original plan was to make final payment the middle of March and turn in all paper work at the same time. He would file a Chapter 7 for us at the end of March. When my wife and I developed this plan we believed there was a real possibility we would not nearly be this far along in the foreclosure process. You see, we had hoped to remain in our home until this coming September for two very important reasons; first, to save additional dollars for the inevitable move, and second, so our children could go to the same school for one more year - we don’t expect to find a rental in this school district. Just so you understand, we did not discuss this plan with our lawyer, it is really more our hope than a plan, and we did not try to take advantage of the inevitable HAMP (Home Affordable Modification Program) notices that were offered last month. After all, by the time US Bank actually seen fit to make this a possible option it was way to late - they wouldn’t even discuss it with us when we inquired on three different occasions since May 5th, 2009. I didn’t even return the paper work for the possible modification when they sent a letter last month. I felt it was not honest to do so, after all, we knew we couldn’t do anything about the second mortgage or the HELOC, besides, we had no intention of staying. I almost wish we had. We have since received notice from our lender that any options available to try and keep our home have been taken off the table; which leads me to my questions.

    The letter above appears to be affording us two separate and distinctly different options. The first option affords us an opportunity to dispute the debt, and the second to inquire if the original creditor is different than the present one (U.S. Bank National Association), which we believe it is. Is that correct - two different options? Or is it a lot of legalese that says the same thing twice? If it is two separate options, can someone please take the time to explain if they have experience doing either, or both? And finally, what would be an example of a letter that disputes the debt? I have read a great deal, and even recall an example in the foreclosure process where the mortgagee disputes the loan based on the color blue - obviously an example, but not one I feel is adequate, unless you feel the entire affair of bankruptcy is a laughing matter, which I do not. Look, please chime in if you think what I am considering doing is a waste of time, is unethical, or effectively does not buy me and my family additional time to prepare for the inevitable - the sale of our home by the bank and the expected move to a rental.

    On a final note - just in case somebody is reading this and they hold a position in a lending institution who has final say on a HAMP applicant who fits every criteria for a mod, except they are NOT behind on their payments, you may want to listen to them when they explain to you that if you do not complete the mod it will lead to default. It just might make a big difference in both of your lives - you and the applicant.

    Thanks.

    #2
    First of all, contact your lawyer and ask his/her advice about the letter. Bk may stall the process with a stay but your lawyer will know Maryland foreclosure laws. You can then make a decision on what to do.

    Hopefully some guru's will jump in here as Minnesota foreclosure process is a lot different from Maryland from what I saw when I googled State of Maryland foreclosure process.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by discouraged View Post
      First of all, contact your lawyer and ask his/her advice about the letter. Bk may stall the process with a stay but your lawyer will know Maryland foreclosure laws. You can then make a decision on what to do.

      Hopefully some guru's will jump in here as Minnesota foreclosure process is a lot different from Maryland from what I saw when I googled State of Maryland foreclosure process.
      Yes, he has the right idea. Let them go until foreclosure papers arrive (that letter was not). Then the auto stay will stop all and they will have to request lift of stay. More time. After that, they have to inform you again. Then live in it until a sale occurs and if real brave stay on longer until they have to give you a suit to vacate. You then have at least 30 more days, then get out or the Sheriff will put your stuff on the sidewalk. It won't last long there. 'Hub
      If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks discouraged. You are so right about the foreclosure process; differing State to State. So much reading material here, all the reading blends together after awhile, I couldn’t tell you what applies to what State from post to post. As for the advice from my lawyer, that is not possible at the moment. He called me and left a message this past Saturday asking me to call him - it is urgent. Of course, I labored over what it could be all weekend, while my wife suggested jokingly he is quitting. Some joke - he did quit, well kind of quit. Due to family reasons he is closing his practice. He was such a nice guy and my wife and I really will feel odd having to deal with another lawyer, but I understand and wish him well. He did recommend a replacement, so to speak, and I spoke with him a few hours ago. But I did not seek advice from him at this time. We still have to meet and reach agreement. Besides, I’m unsure of asking a bankruptcy Lawyer about foreclosure practices? Do you think it is okay to mix foreclosure with bankruptcy and will it increase fees? Of course, I’ll add it to my list of questions to ask him when we meet in early March. Meanwhile, I don’t have time to wait to get an answer to the above question(s). Thanks for your input and good luck.
        Last edited by Looking2Help; 02-22-2011, 05:41 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks Cat, I'm a little confused. Isn't Maryland a Non-Judicial State, and therefore this whole foreclosure process could see me wanting to vacate long before I am discharged from Bankruptcy? Certainly long before September - which is really what that long winded question is all about. Will objecting or disputing the letter from the lawyer gain me more time and give me a shot at achieving my goal of staying until September?

          Also 'Hub. Are you really saying that that letter is not what I thought it was - foreclosure papers? Hmmm - now I'm really confused
          Last edited by Looking2Help; 02-22-2011, 05:46 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Looking - We're a judicial state. Foreclosures are handled in District Court. I missed this post, and can't see the date you posted it. You have time. The foreclosure process will be halted for a time once you file. The Mortgage Co. will have to file a request to lift the automatic stay in BK Court, then you and your attorney will have to attend the hearing. My suggestion would be to get the BK filed, and have the discussion about the foreclosure with your attorney. Did you want to try to keep your home, or did you decide to let it go?
            Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks again broke. That's a big load off my mind. I guess it really is true - you can't believe everything you read on the web. I would link to websites showing contradicting info, and perhaps, if I remember, after I get 15 posts allowing me to link, I will. It's been a helluva long day and I really have to take care of the kids and get some needed rest. I will take time to explain further tomorrow. Good night.

              Comment


                #8
                Hi Looking - When I was dealing with my mortgage company trying to foreclose on me in BK, even after I was current, my BK attorney said he would handle it for me with them in District Court, so I'm glad that helps you to breathe a little better. Take care of the kids, sleep well, and I, as well as others, look forward to the rest of your story.
                Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

                Comment


                  #9
                  With a decent night sleep and an opportunity to look further I believe I understand from Angelina that the letter I posted up top is NOT a foreclosure letter. Sure enough, today’s mail had us receive two more letters from US bank, and it is titled, NOTICE OF INTENT TO FORECLOSE. It is a huge packet of information. Also, I now understand a great deal more about the foreclosure process since BrokeinMD informed me Maryland is a judicial state - thanks. However, can someone please answer some of the questions I had from my post at the top?

                  1. The letter at the top of this post appears to be affording us two separate and distinctly different options. The first option affords us an opportunity to dispute the debt, and the second to inquire if the original creditor is different than the present one (U.S. Bank National Association is the servicer, but name of lender is someone else), which we believe it is. Is that two different options or is it a lot of legalese that says the same thing twice?

                  2. If it is two separate options, can someone please take the time to explain if they have experience doing either, or both?

                  3. And finally, what would be an example of a letter that disputes the debt? If one or more has been written on this site and a link is known that would be very helpful, to date I have not had luck searching.

                  Thanks

                  P.S. To answer your question BrokeinMD “Did we want to try to keep your home or did you let it go?” We definitely wanted to keep it; we love our home, so we went to our first consultation expecting to file Chapter 13. By the end of that meeting we were convinced we could not afford to do so, and that Chapter 7 is best for us. I expected that to be the case; however my wife had hoped the lawyer could show us a way to keep it. Needless to say she was very sad. But, that was nearly two months ago. So, now we are simply trying to drag the process out, legally, so that we may remain until at least September. Hence, the above questions concerning the option to dispute.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The Letter: ‘This law office has been instructed to institute foreclosure proceedings. You have the right to dispute this debt, by notifying in writing, within 30 days from the receipt of this notice that the debt or any portion thereof is disputed. Upon receipt of your written request the law office will obtain a verification of the debt or if the debt is founded upon a judgment, a copy of the judgment, and forward such verification to me. If they receive no written request from me in 30 days they will assume that the debt is valid.’

                    The letter then goes on... ‘If the original creditor is different from the creditor named above (U.S. Bank National Association) then upon my written request (also within 30 days of receipt of this same notice) I will be provided with the name and address of the original creditor.


                    Looking - As we're waiting for the pros to chime in I re-read this and I give you this as a possible scenario of timing:

                    Let's go by the letter date and not the postmarked date. We'll use the February 11, 2011 date as an example, since you didn't say the actual date on the letter. You are given 30 days to respond to it. Think of this as the "discovery process". So, that takes you to about March 7 or so to mail first class mail (or March 10, if you overnighted it.) Your answer to them would be in a formal way, "Prove it". Prove this is my debt, and then prove to me that U.S. Bank is the actual lender. You then request them to provide you with an answer within 30 days. That takes you to April 11.

                    Now, in between that time you get the 7 filed....say by March 20. You're then given the wonderful 90 day automatic stay, which will stop the foreclosure in it's tracks. Let's use June 20 as the end date for that. So, I'm thinking that maybe by April, U.S. Bank would then request the lift of the automatic stay, since they are now forbidden to talk to you about the debt. It would take the BK Court a couple of weeks to schedule that hearing, which would probably be late May.

                    Say then that the BK court grants them the stay. I think, and the vets on here will let me know if I'm correct or not since my matter didn't go this far, but then U.S. Bank would have to file at that time in District Court. So, I think that you'll make it in your house to September without giving them a dime.
                    Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Broke - Thank you so much! If I were the dancing type I would have done so upon reading your response. Thanks a bundle - you have made my day

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You're welcome....and feel free to dance in the cyber world.

                        Make sure to go over all this and keep us posted on what your new attorney says. What a nightmare to find somebody you like to represent you and then have to switch gears and start all over! Did you give your other attorney cash? Is he going to give it back to you or to your new attorney?

                        I think Angelina Hub's post above is on the mark. You may even have past September. Maybe February 2012 or longer? My old next door neighbors bailed out of their house after 3 months of not paying in 2007. They didn't get foreclosure papers in the mail until 13 months after they were living somewhere else paying rent. They could have stayed that whole time....They wound up doing a deal with the lender by avoiding the foreclosure and doing a short sale, which didn't go through until the following August. 18 months they could have hung around before they actually had to go!
                        Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by BrokeinMD View Post
                          My old next door neighbors bailed out of their house after 3 months of not paying in 2007. They didn't get foreclosure papers in the mail until 13 months after they were living somewhere else paying rent. They could have stayed that whole time....They wound up doing a deal with the lender by avoiding the foreclosure and doing a short sale, which didn't go through until the following August. 18 months they could have hung around before they actually had to go!
                          I can understand how someone can leave sooner than they may have wanted, and while I can’t be certain, though I’m pretty sure, I would already be looking for a rental and possibly be moving by the end of March had I not found this wonderful site and community of support. There is so much uncertainty with a bankruptcy, and of course each case is different as well as each lawyer and so few people to draw knowledge from in my circle of friends and peers at work - in fact, there is nobody to even discuss it with, let alone seek advice from. While I understand your post above is only a scenario, it does makes me feel so good to read it from someone in Maryland, who has experience, how they feel it may proceed.

                          Yes, as you suggested, I will go over everything with the new attorney. As for the money we gave him - he asked if one of us would meet him tomorrow to sign papers and give ALL the money back. He told me today that since I haven’t asked him a single question since the two consultations (two months ago), and have not turned in any paperwork, he will return everything in full, including the filing fees (almost $300 in MD). He already paid for the credit report, but he E-mailed me that too so the new Lawyer will not have to charge me again. Brilliant!

                          Thanks again BrokeinMD and I wish you all the best.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I don't really have anything to offer, just letting you know that I know how you feel. We are just finishing up 3 years of HELL! Due to us thinking that we were doing the right thing by filling out a "hardship" package that led to our foreclosure, lawsuit and now bankruptcy.

                            **You might want to ask them for proof of the note. ONLY the holder of the note can foreclose and that can get confusing because of how often loans are sold these days to other companies. Sometimes, the company suing you doesn't even legally own the note. It can buy you some time**

                            Good luck. We ended up vacating long before the auction just because we wanted to be able to qualify for a rental and be able to start our new life.
                            Jen
                            "...and how is it that bankruptcy is considered an "easy" way out by some???"

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thank you, Looking, but I am here to wish you all the best, as I'm just another weary traveler that has been down your road.

                              I can relate to the uncertainty, fear, etc. Had I not disclosed to my sister that I was doing it, she would have never told me that she had filed. I also keep in touch with an old highschool friend who told me he had to file, so I was fortunate to find a close support system, even though they didn't live in my state. That's why I stay on the forum and share, so others may be able to sleep a little better at night with what I've been through.

                              Yes, it's $299 to file the petition. You could have gotten your credit report from freeannualcreditreport.com, so your old attorney beefed up your bill a bit. I'm glad he's giving you your money back.

                              Do keep us updated after meeting with the new attorney!
                              Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

                              Comment

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