Filed ch-13 pro se, is there a form for ch-13 plan?

[highnndry]

Hi,

I filed ch-13 pro se, with internet help and the clerk gave me a list of missing items

1. Ch-13 plan
2. Notice of available chapters signed by debters
3. Verification of creditor mailing list.
4. Statement of related cases required by local Bankruptcy rule 1015-2

I guess the most important one is number 1 Ch-13 plan. Is there a form for it? Because I didn't see one in the BK Court website, is it just a narrative write-up?

Also is it easy to get an extension to file these forms, they only gave me 14 days to file. I filed it in Los Angeles.

Thanks in advance.

[justbroke]

These are ALL important items and should have been filed at the same time. Otherwise, your case will be dismissed for non-compliance with 11 USC 521 (Debtor Duties).

Please don't get mad at me, but I'm going to say some things that may sting. First, do you even have a guidebook, such as NoLo's Guide to Chapter 13? Second, why are you filing Chapter 13 without an attorney?

A Chapter 13 is a very complex thing and very very very very few pro se debtors ever even make it through confirmation (less than 10%). I think that there are only 2 or 3 active users on this board of 1,000,000+ visitors a year, that have successfully navigated the bankruptcy court well enough to have a Chapter 13 Plan confirmed.

You can not have the 521 deadline extended unless you have good cause such as excusable neglect. However, your reason is simply that you don't understand the process and the Court will probably not be forgiving.

A Chapter 13 Plan of Reorganization is not a narrative. It is, in fact, a Contract. Depending on your District, there may be a prescribed form of the Plan known as the "Model Plan". Even with the Model Plan, you need to insure that the creditors are intact, appropriately "addressed" by the plan and that the "other" provisions cover any special conditions. This is not a small task.

May we ask why you filed a Chapter 13 without knowing that the most important part is, in fact, the Chapter 13 Plan of Reorganization?

(Note: in some courts in California, there is a "Pro Se" area with pro bono attorneys to help you. I'm not sure they'd help with a Chapter 13 since these can be complex.)

[highnndry]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply, my ch-13 is simple I have no asset only unsecured debt and IRS debt. My income is below the means test with zero disposable income at the moment. Hence, I filed it pro se since it is straight forward. I do have a sample write-up of ch-13 plan and wanted to confirm if there was a form that goes with it.

Please see my other thread for details as for why I'm filing ch-13: can't post link. the title is "Is chapter 13 my only option"

[justbroke]

I would still check with the Clerk's office as to whether there is a pro se clinic available. Even with a "simple" Chapter 13, it's not that simple. Getting yhour DMI correctly established will mean the difference between being able to actually "save" for emergencies during your Chapter 13, and your Chapter 13 ultimately failing.

I don't understand how you get to 0 disposable income (DMI). It may be tough to get such a confirmed plan anyhow, since you dont' need the Trustee for anything!

In fact, if you go through the data and perform about a weeks worth of number crunching, like most pro se debtors, you might find that filing Chapter 7 and, post-discharge, entering into a Payment Agreement with the IRS is the best thing.

I have yet to see any of your other threads. You'd probably be better served by putting your questions in the Pro Se forum area.

(Edited to add: I just read your other thread from February where you claim that you do have a positive DMI. This concerns me even more that you may be doing something wrong.)

[HHM]

If it was so straight forward, you wouldn't be asking the questions you are asking...sorry. Even for perceived "simple" chapter 13's, they are still 3 times the BK of a chapter 7. And as you are finding out, easily 50% of what you need to know is not written in any book, it is local practice and policy that is only learned by experience.

Try visiting your chapter 13 trustees website (assuming they have one) or call the trustee. Most will have a copy of the "model" plan for your district. You need to use the approved, model plan, for your district, a simple write up will simply piss off the trustee and judge and will lead to your case being dismissed (which, based on what you already described, will probably happen anyway; based on your other thread, you work "off and on", that means no regular source of income, hence, not a feasible chapter 13).

Have you tried checking PACER...do you even know about PACER and downloading some confirmed chapter 13 plans?

Like JB, I question the strategy of filing chapter 13 if you have no DMI and have tax debt (assuming you have priority, non-dischargeable tax debt or else there would be no reason to do a 13). Most likely, better off filing chap 7, and either working out a payment plan with the IRS or getting non-collectable status.

[highnndry]

Since, I cannot link the other topic yet I'll try to summarize my situation again:

Tax debt : $5,500 (on payment plan with IRS, but incurring penalty and fees and interest)
Unsecured debt: $55K (one of them sued, hence ch-13)

Ch-7 is not an option because i filed it 5 years ago when my business went belly up. I tried to settle with this credit card company but since I don't have a big lump sum and they won't bulge too much from the total debt + interest + junk fees I have no other choice. I do not want a judgement in my file because of wage garnishment which would hamper further in my irs tax payment plan. Not to mention what happens when other creditors lines up with further law suits.

Now that we got that out of the way, can you guys help with the question at hand in the first post. The decision to file or not to file has already been made and ch-13 was the only option left. So if you guys could help me with the above four question in my first post I would appreciate a lot.

Thanks in advance.

[highnndry]

I'm very familiar with PACER and checking them right now, thanks for reminding me about PACER.

[HHM]

Generally, Number 2 and 4 are for represented debtors, so not sure why that would be deficient, but districts can vary.

Number 3 should be in a form packet somewhere, check your BK courts website.

Number 1 already addressed.

[LadyInTheRed]

I guess the most important one is number 1 Ch-13 plan. Is there a form for it? Because I didn't see one in the BK Court website, is it just a narrative write-up?

Your in the Central District of California, right? I found the madatory form for a Chap 13 plan on the court's website in about 2 minutes. The fact that you can't find it tells me you have not adequately prepared to file pro se by reading everything available on that site. You should have known that website like the back of your hand before filing. If you want to have any hope of getting through a Chap 13, I suggest you go to the court's website and read everything on it, especially the "Forms/Rules/General Orders" and "Don't Have an Attorney?" links on the first page.

[highnndry]

Thanks lady inthered, thats the sample form I downloaded from formsworkflow. The package listing that I used to prepare my petition didn't include that form or I must have totally missed it. I filed every other schedule almost 50 pages of it except for that one, no clue how I missed it.

It appears that there is only one form and rest are schedules and statements, may be thats where I got confused. Hey, that's why we have this board right? Thanks again, you have been very helpful.