Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

I Want to make sure I understand the 13.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I Want to make sure I understand the 13.

    I was going to ask this on a couple of other threads, but didn't want to hijack, so I thought I would start a new one.

    Anyway, I am preparing myself for the worst, which would be a 36 mo. chapter 13 (because, we are under median for the 7). I plugged in all of the income (incl. my SS and my children's SS) with NO exemptions other than what the IRS ones were on this website:

    http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/means-test/

    It said that my disposable income was $1500, or so (HA!!!!). Which, that would pay back 95K over 5 years and we are at 65K total, so I am assuming the payments would be less, but we would only be in a 3 year plan so I am sure that they could be just as high. (I don't even know if this is reliable, but I was using it as a guideline of what to possibly expect, so I don't have a heart attack in the court room)

    However, I guess what I want to know is:

    1. Do the trustees ever allow for the exemptions that you and your attorney put in, or do they adhere to the strict policy of only the IRS allowances? What is the norm? I'm just trying to get a feel of how strict these trustees are and if I should automatically assume that they won't allow any other exemptions or adjustments.

    2. To make sure I understand the process right : You file the 13 (or convert if you are me). Within so many days (15?), you submit YOUR repayment plan to the trustee, within 30 days you begin to make payments even if the amount is not confirmed. (Are these payments YOUR proposed plan, or does the trustee make you pay what THEY decide, even without you agreeing, before the confirmation?) At the confirmation, the judge will make the official order after listening to the trustee and your attorney and you and then confirm the payment plan and time depending on his mood of the day.

    3. Also, let me make sure I have this correct, The 341 is different than the confirmation right? I am assuming the 341 is first, or are they done at the same time?

    (If there is a resource or sticky with the correct timeline that would be great, I couldn't find anything and I really looked!)

    My last question is regarding after the plan is confirmed. Will the trustee regularly review your case to make sure that you are not experiencing a decrease in expenses or increase in pay. For example our son goes to preschool. His preschool ends in May. Will the trustee likely go after that tuition amount? How do they, if it's possible?

    I know I'm posting a ton, so thanks for being patient with me! It probably seems like I am asking redundant or obvious questions. I just want to make sure I understand things completely...and also, I am having constant anxiety attacks thinking about this
    Jen
    "...and how is it that bankruptcy is considered an "easy" way out by some???"

  • #2
    Originally posted by mom2crazies View Post
    I was going to ask this on a couple of other threads, but didn't want to hijack, so I thought I would start a new one.

    Anyway, I am preparing myself for the worst, which would be a 36 mo. chapter 13 (because, we are under median for the 7). I plugged in all of the income (incl. my SS and my children's SS) with NO exemptions other than what the IRS ones were on this website:

    http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/means-test/

    It said that my disposable income was $1500, or so (HA!!!!). Which, that would pay back 95K over 5 years and we are at 65K total, so I am assuming the payments would be less, but we would only be in a 3 year plan so I am sure that they could be just as high. (I don't even know if this is reliable, but I was using it as a guideline of what to possibly expect, so I don't have a heart attack in the court room) If you are under the median now, and it says your disposable income is $1500 per month, I would bet that you are not taking all allowable expenses and missing some big ones.

    However, I guess what I want to know is:

    1. Do the trustees ever allow for the exemptions that you and your attorney put in, or do they adhere to the strict policy of only the IRS allowances? What is the norm? I'm just trying to get a feel of how strict these trustees are and if I should automatically assume that they won't allow any other exemptions or adjustments.Yes, you can go over the allowable expenses, just be prepared to have receipts and such. (IE: Medical, utilities, etc.)

    2. To make sure I understand the process right : You file the 13 (or convert if you are me). Within so many days (15?), you submit YOUR repayment plan to the trustee, within 30 days you begin to make payments even if the amount is not confirmed. (Are these payments YOUR proposed plan, or does the trustee make you pay what THEY decide, even without you agreeing, before the confirmation?) At the confirmation, the judge will make the official order after listening to the trustee and your attorney and you and then confirm the payment plan and time depending on his mood of the day. The first payment is due within 30 days of your date of filing, not date of of submitting your payment plan. The "Proposed" payment amount is just that - proposed. It is what you and your attorney submit, and that is to be the amount you pay unless you hear differently from the trustee.

    3. Also, let me make sure I have this correct, The 341 is different than the confirmation right? I am assuming the 341 is first, or are they done at the same time? No, they are not done at the same time. (Although we have read here that it can happen that the case is confirmed on the same day, that is extremely rare.)

    (If there is a resource or sticky with the correct timeline that would be great, I couldn't find anything and I really looked!)

    My last question is regarding after the plan is confirmed. Will the trustee regularly review your case to make sure that you are not experiencing a decrease in expenses or increase in pay. For example our son goes to preschool. His preschool ends in May. Will the trustee likely go after that tuition amount? How do they, if it's possible? I am not sure how it works with education / pre-school expenses, as we didn't have young children. At any time a trustee can review your case, but that also is rare. That usually only happens to those who have an increase in income. A decrease in expenses (car payment that will end, etc) is usually noticed by the trustee before the confirmation hearing and a "step up" plan is put in place. I haven't heard about that happening with child care expenses, perhaps others will know more about this.

    I know I'm posting a ton, so thanks for being patient with me! It probably seems like I am asking redundant or obvious questions. I just want to make sure I understand things completely...and also, I am having constant anxiety attacks thinking about this
    It's always better to ask then to be blindsided later. Avoid the anxiety attacks :-)
    Filed Chapter 13 02/2006 - Confirmed 05/2006 - Discharged 09/2011
    I'm not an attorney. My replies are merely suggestions or observations, not legal advice. As always, consult with an attorney before making any decisions.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think mom2crazies is under the median but has high DMI due to Social Security income, which is not considered in means test but is used to determine DMI. At least that is what happened in our case, just wage income used in means test but son's survivors benefits included in calculating DMI and payback amount.

      In our case we did have daycare expense change, as you did, and trustee didn't come back to us for the $ until we had another change in the plan (husband couldn't work due to disability) so we had to re-do the entire schedule then, including expenses that had gone down but had so many that went up and then loss of income it was still the right choice to go back and re-do the schedules for us ($1100 payment reduced to $400 even with the loss of daycare costs!). But the truth is no one can answer to what your particular trustee will do. Some are just happy to let you fly under the radar and complete your plans and don't care about changes unless you bring it up with them, some are hard-nosed who require you to jump hoops every year with tax returns, etc. It's a sad thing, but it seems to me to be pure luck of the draw as to what type trustee you get. Your attorney who has worked with your particular trustee is the best one to answer these questions since everyone's experiences on here vary for the exact same issues. Best of luck!
      Filed CH 13 September 17, 2007
      Plan Modified July 8, 2009 from $1100/month to $400/month due to change in income, finally discharged in July of 2013!

      Comment


      • #4
        I want my friends trustee who didn't do anything at all!! She was WAY over the median with a ton of disposable income and "fluffy" exemptions (she said). Maybe I will get the same chapter 7 guy. I know the chapter 13 trustees seem to be ALOT stricter and harder to work with (that's just my own opinion from lurking on this board and reading the other stuff out there)

        Newbie2: Yes, anxiety attacks. I had a horrible one last night and today I'm just a complete shell. I don't know how we got here (well, I know being a bipolar shopping addict certainly didn't help). I feel like it's my job to protect my family and children and I feel like I am not doing well at it, at all. Does anyone else have days where you feel this deep hole of hopelessness?
        Jen
        "...and how is it that bankruptcy is considered an "easy" way out by some???"

        Comment


        • #5
          mom2crazies, you ARE protecting your children by taking a necessary step to improve your financial situation. You deserve a pat on the back for confronting your problems for a better future instead of sticking your head in the sand.

          To minimize anxiety, I suggest you focus your energy on working with your attorney to get the Chap 7 petition in good order instead of focusing on the what ifs. I know you want to be prepared for what might happen. Maybe it is enough to know that there is a possiblity you will have to dismiss the 7 or convert it to a 13 and be emotianally ready for that possibility. Worry about the details of the 13 if and when you need to. Just my 2 cents. You are the only one who knows what works to reduce your anxiety level. Hopefully, there is something that can do that for you besides shopping.
          LadyInTheRed is in the black!
          Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
          $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
            Hopefully, there is something that can do that for you besides shopping.
            HA HA HA! Yes, definitely NOT tempted to shop! I will however, read my Dave Ramsey book one more time.
            Jen
            "...and how is it that bankruptcy is considered an "easy" way out by some???"

            Comment

            Unconfigured Ad Widget

            Collapse
            Working...
            X