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Questions regarding PMSI

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  • Questions regarding PMSI

    Hello everyone,

    Interesting question here that someone may have an answer to. I recently filed chapter 7 on 21 November. 341 meeting of creditors is scheduled on 28 December and I'm not too nervous about that thanks to this forum. It's pretty much a no asset case with the likely exception of my tax refund this coming year will be taken. I'm reaffirming my home and 2 vehicles and discharging all CC debt and an "Unsecured Loan".

    Said "unsecured loan" is my question here... A few years ago when I was working at a pretty large company, I purchased, with a loan from Greensky, Solar Panels for my home. Salesman indicated it was an unsecured loan and no lien will be attached to my home. That is true as the paperwork stated it is an unsecured loan and it also states that on my credit report. After really meticulously reading over the loan agreement last month before filing, there is a security interest in the solar system itself. Basically it is stating that "The purchase of a solar panel system constitutes a PMSI agreement" and the system is labeled as personal property and not part of or permanently attached to real property. This system is attached to my roof. Are they going to pay a contractor to remove this system and repair my roof? Are they going to place a UCC filing or lien on the property in case I sell the home years from now and leave it at that? Or are they going to harass me until they give up? My attorney says if they ask, to surrender the property at their expense. After that, she said she's unsure if they'd even come get it.

    Thank in advance everyone!

  • #2
    I can't tell you whether any creditor would go through the trouble of removing the solar system, but they do have a PMSI which is a consensual lien on that specific property. Your attorney is right; you put it down as surrender and let them do their thing. It is probably, likely that the expense to remove is not worth the value of the property unless they want to do it out of spite.

    They can't make a "new" lien upon your property since any lien must have been in existence prior to the filing of the bankruptcy. If your paperwork has no lien on the property, then they can't just decide to file a lien against your home in spite.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Justbroke

      This is the clause that confuses me. I included the value of the panels and the increase in equity from the panels for my home. The home and all equity is exempt. Here is a copy paste from the loan agreement. I'm wondering if I messed up including that as equity on my property...

      To the extent that, notwithstanding our express intent, the Solar System or any portion thereof is determined by any governmental authority to consti- tute a fixture or an interest in any residential real property, and as a result of such determination we, or anyone acting on our behalf, would be deemed to constitute a mortgage broker or mortgage lender under applicable law, then the Solar System or such portion thereof, as applicable, shall be excluded from the security interest arising pursuant to this section. You agree that we disclaim any mechanic’s, materialman’s or similar lien to which we might
      otherwise be entitled by operation of law on or relating to (1) your real property at the location of the Solar System or other real property or any other property you use as a residence, and (2) any other property or collateral other than the Solar System itself.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think that paragraph just says that if the solar system is determined to be a permanent fixture (and part of the structure of the home), then they do not have a security interest in your home by virtue of a mechanics lien or other lien to which they would have been entitled.

        I would make sure my attorney visited this issue and ensure that the solar system is treated correctly.
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


        • #5
          A solar system includes a lot more than just the panels themselves, which are mounted to the roof of a home. It also includes an inverter/control box, wiring and conduit, fused disconnect switch, and an electric meter to measure the power generated. This is then tied into the main circuit breaker panel of the home.

          None of these components are "freestanding" or "plug-in", so this would clearly constitute a permanent fixture of the home. Removing the solar system would cause a lot more damage than removing a countertop, furnace, or A/C unit, and these things are legally considered "fixtures".

          Comment


          • #6
            That’s what I was thinking also, but I’m so lost on what happens to “Fixtures” or fixture filings in bankruptcy. I guess I’ll provide feedback here after everything is over.

            Comment


            • #7
              341 Meeting tomorrow. Of course nerves are shot due to fear of the unknown I guess.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, just the fear of the unknown. I had the same anxiety, but it was nothing.
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by offroader31 View Post
                  341 Meeting tomorrow. Of course nerves are shot due to fear of the unknown I guess.
                  I just got through my 341 yesterday. It went super smooth, as it does for most people from what I've read here and what my attorney has told me.

                  If you've made a full disclosure of your financial situation and you are fully honest with the trustee, you should have nothing to worry about.

                  Good luck and let us know when you officially become part of the 60-day club!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Meeting went smooth and I was the 2nd one called. Lasted about 5 minutes just like the forums state. What should I look for on pacer here in about week or so?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You should see a document titled "Report of No Distribution" if you are a no-asset debtor. Otherwise, it may be much more time. The Report of No Distribution, however, has nothing to do with your discharge. Your discharge will come 60 days from today baring the United States Trustee (UST) intervening. Since it appears the UST didn't show up at your meeting, it's nearly improbably that they would intervene in your case.

                      Now you just sit back and relax. Welcome to Club Sixty!
                      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The only asset that I know of that he is taking is my tax refund for 2017. Does that change what I will see on pacer? He didn't ask about any other assets like my old mower, television, tools etc. Usually if they are interested in those items do they ask about them at the 341 meeting or do you later get a surprise order in the mail to turn over those items? Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad I'm in the club now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, that would change what you see. If you didn't exempt the 2017 anticipated refund and the Trustee stated that they want the refund (or a portion thereof), then you are an asset case. Remember, you still get your discharge in 60 days, but the Trustee will keep the case open (prevent it from administratively closing) until they get that refund.

                          There should be no other surprises as the Trustee would have told you at the 341 Meeting about other assets in which they were interested.
                          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Pacer updated this morning with this docket: 341 Meeting held 12/28/17 - All parties present - No exceptions.

                            Am I assuming correctly that the 60 day club has officially commenced without any hiccups (so far)? Of course I'll have to send him my tax refund next year but other than that no issues? Louisiana doesn't accept federal wildcard exemptions so I was unable to exempt the anticipated refund. The only portion they don't take is the E.I.C. which I don't get anyways due to income. I was only barely below the means limit for my family of 4.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The 60 day club commenced on the day of your 341 Meeting whether or not it was "continued" (rescheduled) or concluded (finished). You should be good to go. Just get your taxes done next year and get that check to the Trustee so your case will be completed. You will still receive your discharge after Monday, February 26, 2018 (which is the last day for creditors to file a complaint).

                              So, Welcome, again, to Club Sixty (less one day).
                              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                              Comment

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