I have a pre-trial hearing with creditors lawyers this week....advice?

[justbroke]

How do we know that AA does not have evidence of the sale and assignment of the debt? There has been no discovery. I have seen these companies, like eCast Settlement, show up with the real "underlying" multi-page document showing all the accounts in a specific "package" of accounts. They just don't like them public because you get to see what they paid for the packaged accounts and the "potential" value of the accounts (total outstanding balance of all accounts). If AA is the first JDB to purchase the debt, they may have good records.

But yes, you would attack the evidence; the integrity of the evidence. Is signal up for this type of legal maneuvering? I do not believe so. It would be fun to spar with the JDB's attorneys over evidence.

I did not think that signal was in this for anything other than a settlement.

[signal]

Isn't it true on Florida they can only sue for their losses? And since they purchased this debt as an investment, its not really a debt anymore, since the OC charged off and took the loss? I have heard that they could only sue for what they paid for it, potentially 1/10th or even less of the actual original amount owed. I am not sure how true this is, just stuff I have read in the forums.

[justbroke]

If that were the case, the JDBs would never file lawsuits. They would probably be out of business! They would not be able to file lawsuits with a sum certain (plus fees) in a lawsuit.

I have read cases where (BK) judges have ruled that the JDB, if they can prove you owe the debt and that they were assigned the debt through a purchase, can charge face value. This is why many will try to get discovery to see just what price was paid for the the bulk accounts. Then try to claim that the "value" of the claim is only $0.10 on the dollar.

There is a difference between reading forums and reading an actual ruling from your State, your Circuit, and maybe even your judge. Always ask for a citation and hopefully it is from your State/Circuit/Judge or an Appellate decision from your State/Circuit.

[GoingDown]

I just wanted to add this...

In case things don't go your way in court, and they end up getting a judgment, what is your back-up plan?

Remember, once they get a judgment, without any further warning to you, they can seize your checking / savings account in most cases. There are stickies above in this forum which talk about exempt funds, but unless your income is from something like Social Security, they can pretty much drain your bank accounts to satisfy a judgment.

A good rule of thumb once someone files a lawsuit against you is to never keep more money in a checking account than you can afford to lose. Sadly, it is then safer as cash stuffed under your mattress than it is in a bank. They are not on your side and will pretty much carry out whatever the court tells them to do with your money.

And of course, most states allow your wages to be garnished after they get a judgment.

If that is something you can't handle, you might want to think about filing bankruptcy to get out from under this debt and the coming judgment.

[signal]

This is not a high dollar case, its $2k, if they get a judgement, I'll simply pay it.

That said, I have retained an attorney, focused on fighting creditors, I will keep you all updated. I still have not been served!

[df04527]

If they get a judgement you will simply pay it? Ok...figure in the cost of the massive drop in your credit score also.

[signal]

I don't plan on this going to trial, but if it does, I plan to fight it. If I lose the case, and a judgement is against me, I am not sure what other alternatives I have. Appeals is one, if I can show the judge misread the law, etc. I wouldn't rule that out, I would be leaning on my attorney at that point of course.

If you can let me know what options are available, besides paying a judgement I would be interested. I am not going to BK over $2k.

[justbroke]

signal, as much as I am for fighting things, you willingness to go all the way, incur more attorney fees (yours and theirs), and even appeal, seem way off target from where this thread started. You originally just wanted proof of the debt. If they prove that they were assigned the debt... why fight anymore? You say that you would just pay it, but now you're talking about appealing a judgment.

There are no options available other than bankruptcy, settle, or fight to the bitter/bloody end. When you hire an attorney to represent you, hopefully they find a technicality and get the case dismissed or dropped. That doesn't mean it goes away; the debt "might" be resold.

No one can tell you the outcome or where to go. We "here" at BKForum know one sure guaranteed way to stop an unsecured creditor. People do find success from time-to-time with hiring an attorney to represent you in a lawsuit of this type. I do not know, even in an anecdotal way, the success/failure rates.

[df04527]

Few and far between is my educated guess and the reason is these big debt collectors know what the consumers and their attorney's will go after so their ducks are typically in a row. Thousands have walked before you.

Honestly, I don't really want to poo poo on your parade, if you have a real concern, then by all means go for it. I would be willing to bet they are owed the money though and for 2k..i would pay it to relieve the stress! but that's me.

[signal]

justbroke, I am looking for the options that will cause me the least troubles. What I have done is not pay this debt. A JDB came forward and is claiming they own the debt. They have not proven to me they do own the debt. They are going to be suing me, as they have filed for a pre-trial hearing, but sent service to the wrong address, any day now I will get the service. I don't "want" to goto court, but I sure the hell am not paying someone just because they ask for it. If I goto court, I will use an attorney, and likely prevail, as I don't believe this JDB has it all together, worse case, if I lose, I will pay.

Paying the JDB flat out, without them proving to me that I should owe them anything, is not an option.

In hiring an attorney, I believe it will not goto trial, but it may. I do not like lawsuits, nor am I after any "damages", I am just looking to get this in the past.

[signal]

df, they haven't proven they own the debt, because they likely don't have the documents to establish that. It's possible they produce them, and its also possible there are issues with the documents.

I don't believe JDB's have their ducks in a row. I believe they purchase mountains of debt at pennies on the dollar, the diligence they can do is limited. Most of them make more than their investment back just on settlements, and then additional monies on summary judgements. I competent attorney, imho, should out match a JDB. A JDB does not make money in court, it slows them down, its not part of the business model, and their attorney may or may not have the chops. I know I owe somebody money, but before any of it goes to a JDB they will need to at least show me documents. They showed me a statement of mine, thats it, from the OC. No contract, no signatures, nothing that would show I have guaranteed anything, or that they have ownership of this debt.

[bcohen]

If BK is really out of the question, and your endgame is to pay the debt, then I guess it's time to talk settlement. Of course, Asset Acceptance paid no more than 5% of the face value for the debt, and probably won't agree to settle for less than 50%, and may not even agree to settle that low. On the other hand, if your credit already sucks, and BK looks like a good option, then the JDB will be more likely to settle.

Personally, I would take the chance and fight a JDB in court, and most likely I'd win--heck, I delayed Discover (an OC) for 4 months, and almost beat them. Of course, if you have absolutely NO intention of filing for BK, then this might be a bad strategy, as they will add their legal costs to the judgment if they win.

[GoingDown]

The thing to consider is if they win a judgment, that will stay on your credit report for a full 7 years, even if you pay it off. And it's right at the top of your credit report, for everyone to see. It makes looking for mainstream employment rather difficult.

If you're going to pay it anyways, do it before this goes much further, and it appears on your credit report as a judgment. But get the settlement agreement in writing before you pay them anything (and it should say "SETTLED IN FULL"), and when you do pay, pay it with a cashier's check, so they won't have access to your account.

And as everyone knows around here, that is difficult for me to say, because I hate to pay them anything.

But I also ended up with a judgment on my credit report for 7 full years.

[df04527]

Ok...my point was what going down said. Your going to pay far more and for a very long time. AA is a huge outfit that are not rookies at this. What they are required to do to validate the debt is amazingly simple.

And i HATE to have to pay a debt collector also believe me.

[bcohen]

The thing to consider is if they win a judgment, that will stay on your credit report for a full 7 years, even if you pay it off. And it's right at the top of your credit report, for everyone to see. It makes looking for mainstream employment rather difficult.

Didn't you say you worked in construction? A judgment from a consumer debt shouldn't have affected your employment prospects one way or another. I worked in HVAC, and a lot of the people I worked with were ex-cons who had served lengthy prison sentences for armed robbery, selling drugs, and other serious offenses. I very seriously doubt that an employer would care about a civil judgment in that industry, and to the best of my knowledge, no company that I ever applied for did a credit check, but all of them did a driving record check, criminal/background check, and pre-employment drug testing. I certainly was never asked about civil judgments on any job application, nor at any interview, and I interviewed at many companies (a lot of which I decided not to work for, based on what I learned at the interview).

In any case, once you file for BK, the judgment should be marked as "satisfied" or deleted from your credit reports, depending on your state's laws. According to the attorney here at the U of A, once I file, the judgment will be marked as "resolved through bankruptcy" and $0 balance owing. I am planning to file on Friday morning, so we shall see.