Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

House With HOA Fees

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • House With HOA Fees

    I am filing in TN chapter 7. The attorney says I probably will be able to stay 4-6 months. The house is in a HOA.
    I am wondering how the HOA fees play into this. Should I continue to pay the HOA fees to avoid action by the HOA?
    (I didn't think to ask the attorney and I don't see him until next week).
    New and confused.

    Thanks

  • #2
    You are responsible for all HOA fees/dues/assessments that come due from the day you file bk until the day the property is either sold (short sale or regular), you sign a Deed in Lieu, or is foreclosed. Please discuss this with the attny.

    Des.

    Comment


    • #3
      First, welcome to the forum!

      As for the HOA dues, the HOA dues will be discharged, but if HOA in your State, enjoys a super or statutory lien, then the HOA could foreclose upon the home. I can't tell you what your HOA or your lender would do once your bankruptcy moves along and the case finally is discharged. (Or the lender/HOA files a Morison for Relief From Stay (MFRS).)

      HOA dues that come due and owing after you file and before any foreclosure (by the HOA or Lender), are your responsibility. You may need to pay all dues that become due and owing after you file. (Florida law provides that the lender is responsibile for HOA dues for up to 12 months immediately preceding the foreclosure. I do not know if TN has similar laws. The HOA could come after you personally for dues owing after you file!)

      I would certainly talk to my TN Bankruptcy Attorney for details.
      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

      Comment


      • #4
        I would wait until the bank takes possession of your property before you file, in which the HOA will be their responsibility. Than you can discharge outstanding previous HOA balance.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jacko View Post
          I would wait until the bank takes possession of your property before you file, in which the HOA will be their responsibility. Than you can discharge outstanding previous HOA balance.
          That is a very nice strategy, if you can get the bank to foreclose quickly.
          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

          Comment


          • #6
            Jacko,

            Thanks to all who replied but after looking up case histories your post makes the most sense.

            The way I interpret the various articles on the subject in TN the property owner is responsible for the HOA fees and those fees do not discharged with BK. The mortgage holder must take back the property in order to become responsible for the HOA fees. It seems to me the best way to proceed is to continue to pay the utilities and HOA fees and not pay the mortgage. I could also pay a minimum on my CC's. Then wait for the bank to foreclose to file.
            However, the attorney I talked to told me that I should initiate the BK proceedings right away.

            BTW, because of the HOA laws in TN most articles I have read state that banks are reluctant to foreclose. If I didn't have to make my mortgage payment I would be in fine shape. I think I need to see another attorney.

            What do you think?

            Thanks


            BTW, the attorney I talked to said my BK would take about 4-6- months. I have no problem paying the HOA fees, $100, for that period. I do have a problem if after the BK I still owe the HOA that $100 every month.

            Comment


            • #7
              You actually can discharge HOA dues in a bankruptcy, and it is spelled out quite clearly in 11 USC 523(a)(16) " but nothing in this paragraph shall except from discharge the debt of a debtor for a membership association fee or assessment for a period arising before entry of the order for relief in a pending or subsequent bankruptcy case". In that same paragraph, 11 USC 523(a)(16) puts the responsibility on the homeowner for dues/fees/assessments that are assessed after the petition is filed, on the owner. (I know this very specifically in that I fought with my HOA on this specific topic and won.)

              The question is really, do you do what I did? I discharged the HOA dues but I did not pay the ones before filing. I am going to do a (relatively short or pretty close) short sale, but I have paid all the HOA dues since the petition was filed.

              If you are unsure, you really should speak to your attorney. HOA dues are absoutely dischargeable and discharged if they came due prior to the date of filing. If you want to keep the property, however, you may need to pay the pre-petition dues based on any statutory (or secret) lien that the HOA enjoys, or a lien that the HOA actually recorded.

              (The other question is the lien and how it may attach to the property. Even though the debt, prior to filing, is discharged, the lien will still be there (if it's statutory in TN or if the HOA filed a lien).)
              Last edited by justbroke; 11-27-2013, 09:18 AM.
              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

              Comment


              • #8
                IMO, you would need to pay the HOA dues after you receive your discharge. Stay at the house as long as you can... Our house was IIB when we filed in 12/2010. Our last payment was 09/2010 and we just completed a DIL last month with Chase. We never even had a sheriff's sale scheduled.... just got lots of mod offers. 36 months without payment but we did continue to pay the HOA. We moved after 24 months and paid the HOA feees after that, too. We just considered it really cheap rent when the $ we paid to the HOA over 36 months was compared to the 24 months we had without a mortgage payment. YMMV

                Good luck!
                Last edited by ValleYum; 11-26-2013, 10:38 PM.
                ~~ Filed Over Median Income Chapter 7: 12/17/2010 ~~ 341 Held: 1/12/2011 ~~ Discharged: 03/16/2011 ~~
                Not an attorney - just an opinionated woman.

                Comment


                • #9
                  JustBroke

                  Thanks for the explanation.

                  I am somewhat confused on this issue. I was impressed with this attorney but he was the first one I talked with. Now that I think about it I did get the sense that he was pushing me into filing. Maybe I should slow down here and talk with a few more. This attorney did tell me he could not advise me on whether to pay any bill or not. With CC I can understand but with things like HOA fees and their implications I think the attorney should advise.

                  The thing is I am not behind in anything yet. I am going to call another lawyer tomorrow.

                  I'm getting too old for this crap. I'm at the time in my life when my only worry should be if my flies or zipped or not.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As ValleyYum writes, I too continue to pay my HOA dues since I filed. I did not pay the pre-petition HOA assessments, but this is a strategy and by choice. (The HOA will not likely foreclose and I'm going to sell slightly short real soon now. Maybe I can even get myself a carve-out... but that's another story.)
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi, nioka. Am I to understand that your endgame is to surrender the house and quit paying the mortgage? If that is the case, then the consensus is that it's best to delay filing for bankruptcy until after the house is foreclosed or short-saled, and the deed is out of your name. This is especially important when the house is in a HOA. The reason is quite simple--you do not want to be stuck for HOA dues and/or special assessments, which come due after you file, and could result in a lawsuit and garnishment action against you. Some HOA's are extremely aggressive in this regard!

                      If you wait to file, you can quit paying the mortgage, HOA dues, property taxes, credit cards, and whatever other debts you were planning to discharge. You can continue to live in the house, payment-free, and wait for the bank to foreclose. You may discover that the bank is in no hurry to foreclose, and enjoy several years of rent-free living in your house!

                      If and when the bank finally chooses to foreclose, then you move out and find an apartment, and once the deed is transferred out of your name, then you file for bankruptcy. In that case, you will be able to discharge any and all HOA dues/fees/penalties, because bankruptcy can only discharge money owed to an HOA which was incurred before the filing date.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ValleYum, justbroke, bcohen,

                        Thanks for your posts.

                        Now it is clear that dumping the HOA fees is top priority. The only way to do that is to dump the house but after my research, and just as you say, the bank will not be in any hurry to foreclose. The HOA will not be in any hurry to sue for possession as that will also end my obligation to pay the HOA fees.
                        First step then is to continue to pay my other bills including the HOA fees and not the mortgage. When the house is foreclose then I can continue with bankruptcy. This makes sense to me and I don't know what the attorney I talked to didn't tell me the same thing.
                        I am definitely calling another attorney.

                        I did talk to a real estate agent and the houses at my location are not selling. I bought with no money and therefore there is only $4k in equity.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If you are not keeping the house, don't pay the HOA. Simply wait to file for bankruptcy, and then the HOA dues will be discharged, along with the mortgage!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I was thinking that when a house is foreclosed the sheriff comes by and throws the contents and the residents on the street. I am wrong?

                            I now have another issue. I have a fine issued by the HOA for a frivolous matter but it is for $1200. Now I will not be making mortgage payment, HOA payments, and the HOA fine. All of which are cause for liens and foreclosures. From what I have read typically the HOA will try to foreclose first and the back is forced to be right behind them. I am just now sure how this will all play out.

                            If anybody has been thru this please let me know what to expect. Thanks.

                            I'm trying not to find myself sitting on the street unexpectedly.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              When the house is eventually sold or foreclosed, it is up to the new owner--which may be the HOA, some private investor, or even the mortgage lender--to get the previous owner (you) out. Normally, they will offer a reasonable amount of time (at least 30 days) and possibly also offer a small amount of money to pay your moving expenses (cash for keys) before they would try to initiate eviction proceedings. The new owner would much rather you leave on good terms, because they know that when evicting the previous owner, lots of "accidental" damage (notice the word is in quotes) is likely to occur. It is thus, in their financial interest to have the previous owner leave on good terms. If an when the house sells, contact the new owner to negotiate a reasonable move-out timeframe.

                              Comment

                              Unconfigured Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X