Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Health Insurance Discussion

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • It's not as simple as that nc73.

    If you do that you pretty much screw any doctor with student loans and almost all have them if they haven't been out of school that long. You'd need some sort of forgiveness for them or you'd force them out of business pretty much. Then the creditors would need some sort of incentive to forgive and so on.

    Personally I wish the Congress would stop raising the debt limit, the sooner we hit that limit and have to readjust the sooner things will improve long term even though short term it'll mean a lot of problems. You know if we hadn't accumulated all this debt the last 100 or so years then we'd have plenty of money for national health care.
    May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
    July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
    September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

    Comment


    • Sounds to me like Insurance is the elephant in the room then? There is not doubt they are simply the middle man, that costs more than any other middle man in the nation. I would say if other nations can have affordable care we can too. We simply need to pass some regualtions against snake oil and price gouging.. thought we had those laws, but apparently not. Those two things would lower our costs a great deal.

      Comment


      • I'm interested in how folks feel about the bribe to bring Sen. Nelson on board.

        How do you feel that your state will not only have to pay your own state's increased Medicaid costs, but also will have to pay for Nebraska's?
        May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
        July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
        September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

        Comment


        • I feel like it is business as ususal in washington and in the board room. Deals are struck all the time. Some say it is called compromise. I say we need to get real people in office and in upper management in business to clean this mess up. Gov. should be about the people and the good of our nation instead of speaking to the media all the time to try to get back in office, or stay in office. It is a circus when no one will come up with a plan to stop the run away costs because of partylines. We need to return to honesty and doing what is right and good for ALL the people in the USA, what a concept?

          Comment


          • Merry Christmas! Ed Hanway, Cigna CEO, is getting a $73,200,000 golden parachute

            Yesterday at 2:30pm

            Ed Hanway, CEO of Cigna, one of the nation's largest health insurance companies, will step down at the end of this year, in just over a week. When he does, he'll get $73,200,000 as compensation for a job well done.

            What makes Hanway worth $73.2 million? Well, for one example, he's presided as Cigna denied a liver transplant to 17-year-old Nataline Sarkisyan, causing her death and widespread outrage. Wendell Potter, Cigna's former spokesperson turned whistle-blower, was at the company during the Sarkisyan scandal, and he explains its effect on him personally, as well as how the company thinks about denying care:

            In our system today, there is literally no repercussions for insurance companies when they deny care, jack up rates, or do all the other things they do to screw over their customers. Ed Hanway did all those things as much as he could, and for that, he's being rewarded.

            Out there in America, people are losing their jobs. They're losing their homes. They're skimping on holiday gifts to put food on the table. And they're still going bankrupt do to skyrocketing medical costs.

            Meanwhile, insurance company stocks are "on fire" in reaction to the Senate bill, which, though it has some regulations, leaves people at the mercy of private insurance because it lacks a public health insurance option.

            People out there are suffering, insurance companies are winning, and Ed Hanway is walking away with $73.2 million.

            We've managed to track down Hanway's personal email address. This isn't a spam box or an unattended address, this is Hanway's actual corporate email. It's H.Edward.Hanway@CIGNA.com.

            Send him an email. Tell him what you think of his golden parachute. While you're at it, why don't you tell Hanway what you'd like for Christmas, and what you'd buy with his money. You can leave a message on Cigna's Facebook page as well, if you want.

            Comment


            • Tiger trust me the government is going to be denying care to a lot of people as well, I know that's not what they claim but there is no way to cut medical costs unless they ration care.

              Mom yes I see it as more of the same from Washington. They are getting bolder and bolder with their corruption.
              May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
              July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
              September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

              Comment


              • There's nothing new about this, JR. This kind of internal horse-trading to get votes for bills has been going on as long as we've had a Congress.

                This is what our founding fathers intended when they set up Congress to work the way it does in the Constitution. Do a Google search for 'earmarks' and for 'pork barrel' - the 'tit for tat' 'I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine" vote trading inside Congress has been done extensively by both parties and has been going on for two centuries non-stop. Happy reading.
                I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

                06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
                06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
                07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
                10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
                01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
                09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
                06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
                08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

                10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
                Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

                Comment


                • My post wasn't just about denying care. I mean c'mon. $73 MILLION dollars he got? For what? It's no wonder they deny coverage!

                  And to correct something in my previous post, you cannot comment on Cigna's facebook page because the cowards have blocked it to comments.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JRScott View Post
                    Tiger trust me the government is going to be denying care to a lot of people as well, I know that's not what they claim but there is no way to cut medical costs unless they ration care.

                    Mom yes I see it as more of the same from Washington. They are getting bolder and bolder with their corruption.
                    Currently we get denied care because our illness isn't profitable. Health Ins. Executives get bonuses for the numbers of denials they have. Why is that better than being denied by the government?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JRScott View Post
                      Tiger trust me the government is going to be denying care to a lot of people as well, ...
                      Yes, but it will be a lot less people than are denied even basic care now.

                      I know that's not what they claim but there is no way to cut medical costs unless they ration care.
                      JR, you seem to think that care isn't being rationed now. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

                      Every single private insurance company in the US rations care every single day and has been doing so for decades. They ration it by how much money it's going to cost them. The need to ensure keeping a healthy profit for their shareholders trumps everything, including keeping their own promises to their policy holders when those policy holders need their insurance the most. Insurance companies ration care by making decisions in secret behind closed doors based solely on cost, not medical need. They ration care by rewarding their employees who carve out and drop policy holders who paid premiums in good faith using every excuse in the book to deny coverage to save money for their own pockets and the pockets of their shareholders. This *IS* true rationing of care, and it's based solely on money.

                      Help me understand why you think rationing based only on how much money a person has is ok (the current state), but making clinical decisions based on solid repeatable medical research about what works best to cure medical problems and providing that rather than also providing a lot of other treatments that aren't as effective and don't provide good medical outcomes is not ok? This is the "rationing" that everyone on the right is making into a scarey bogeyman.

                      Why do some people want to continue to have expensive, ineffective treatments that don't work very well and still have their insurance or the government pay for it? Taking what truly doesn't work out of the system as options frees up a great deal of money to put towards what does work. Frankly as a healthcare professional, I just don't get it.
                      I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

                      06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
                      06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
                      07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
                      10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
                      01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
                      09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
                      06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
                      08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

                      10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
                      Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tigergem View Post
                        My post wasn't just about denying care. I mean c'mon. $73 MILLION dollars he got? For what? It's no wonder they deny coverage!
                        First, it's a business. Until we take the middleman insurance companies out of the equation, or reduce their profits to just 3% over costs (or so)... they will continue to make money and increase shareholder value. Everything is interconnected as this company trades on the stock market as well. Insurance companies don't deny claims to pay bonuses... they deny claims to preserve (or even grow) the insurance pool. Without a large insurance pool, they are nothing more than Social Security operating out of their running budget.

                        Insurance companies must, as a practical matter, deny claims. That's just the business of insurance. If an insurance company paid every claim, it would quickly be out of business.

                        To fix this, and I was short on my response last time, you need single payer, and a plethora of other reform. I mean single-payer is removing "insurers" from the equation. Medical providers invoice and bill the Federal Government. But, alas, without reform, this won't work because there is so much Medicare and Medicaid fraud these days, it will make your head spin.

                        There's nothing like seeing the FBI raid a private insurer on an otherwise quiet business day. (I have witnessed this!)
                        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                        Comment


                        • It's amazing that folks think things are going to be run better by the government.

                          First off there are serious issues with this backdoor trading and contrary to what you think the founding fathers were against it and George Washington warned against such partisanship in his farewell address. Jefferson and Hamilton both were against large debt even though they despised one another they both agreed it would lead the nation to destruction.

                          Giving Nebraska free Medicaid while making everyone else pay for it is wrong, and if you are from any other state keep in mind your taxes will go up and Nebraska's will not, I'm not talking federal taxes I'm talking state. This on top of 300 million that was given to Louisiana for their Medicare expenses. How is that fair to your state, or mine? Where is the change that Obama promised? Wasn't he going to end the business as usual? There are no free lunches.

                          Do you really believe they'll cut Medicare by 500 billion dollars? They couldn't even write a health care reform bill without giving billions away to various states and districts. That's where the waste and corruption is. They can't stop it because they themselves are to corrupt to do so.

                          The government has run AmTrack for 30 years and in 30 years it has not made a profit, Social Security is 13 trillion in the hole right now, Medicare is 73 trillion in the hole, Medicare Prescription Drugs is another 18 trillion in the hole, The Post Office is in negative cash flow for five straight years, Nothing the government ever runs comes in on budget. It doesn't know how to do so because they give so many 'special' deals just to get votes. It's bribery and should be called what it is and any senator that votes for a bill that does not at least provide by population his state's fair share of any funding in it is basically a traitor to his state. Same with the Representatives who vote for whatever even if their district gets nothing.

                          Under this plan you will not see better health care, you will pay more for health care. Health care will become more expensive, rationing will increase, and health care in general will decrease. There are key elements missing from the bill that are necessary to meet the goal. Tort Reform is one of them, however the other major problem is we simply don't have enough doctors and nurses to give daily care to 20 million more Americans and there is no provision to assist with educating doctors and nurses to fill the gap. Why not open up insurance to intrastate competition?

                          If we really were looking for helping health care, would you really need all these back door deals just to get votes? If it could stand on its own merits would they not vote for it without kickbacks and special treatment? The many exceptions in our laws is what has largely led us to this place, keep in mind that their are also exceptions for some insurance companies and not others in the legislation.

                          If they were really going to cut the 500 billion from Medicare wouldn't those cuts be specified in the legislation, trust me seniors vote in higher numbers than any other age group and your not going to find much will in Washington to cut their benefits and you can't cut 500 billion without cutting benefits. Without those cuts the bill adds 500 billion to the national debt and is far from deficit neutral.

                          I may not agree with what needs to be done with Dr. Howard Dean but I do agree with him the current bill in the Senate is not going to fix the problems and should be thrown away and start over. Hopefully whatever comes out of conference neither the House nor Senate will pass and they'll start over on a good bill without all this excess spending just to buy votes that does nothing to help Health Care.
                          May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
                          July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
                          September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

                          Comment


                          • Our government was set up as a majority vote, the filibuster 60% came about later. They keep talking about going back to the constitution but they have not yet. If that were in place the "sweet deals" would not be necessary. The super majority vote came about as an amendment from what I am reading. So, maybe if we moved back to that we could avoid some of the give aways to get votes for the last person holding out?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by momisery View Post
                              Our government was set up as a majority vote, the filibuster 60% came about later. They keep talking about going back to the constitution but they have not yet. If that were in place the "sweet deals" would not be necessary. The super majority vote came about as an amendment from what I am reading. So, maybe if we moved back to that we could avoid some of the give aways to get votes for the last person holding out?
                              If you go by the Constitution there is no right to health insurance or medical care and it wasn't a right given to the Federal Congress in Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution. Thereby the 10th Amendment it would be a State power not a federal one. Congress could regulate it over state borders but that's not what they are doing. The main problem the states have run into is that people are not willing to pay high enough taxes to support the health cares systems thus every state that has tried it has repealed it except Massachusetts which probably will have to within 5 years, Hawaii's didn't even last a year I don't think.

                              To change Article I Section 8 would first require a constitutional amendment which is far harder than the 60% required. The 60% majority was so that they'd have a chance under most circumstances to override any Presidential veto, however the Constitution doesn't set it at that and leaves that up to Congress itself.

                              By Article I Section 7 this bill shouldn't of originated in the Senate since it has a revenue component and all of those have to originate in the House (That's why after the final bill is written in committee it has to first go to the House for passage then to the Senate to become law).

                              By Article I Section 9 the bill in the Senate violates the US Constitution by giving favorable treatment to some states like Nebraska and Louisiana over other states as well as some insurance companies over others in essence penalizing all others without due process (It's the same claim they used to challenge the stripping of ACORN's funding since to date its not yet been found guilty of wrongdoing).
                              May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
                              July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
                              September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

                              Comment


                              • JR, I believe that they did away with the majority vote and created a total disaster. I do agree that we need amendments, but some are not working at all like this one. As for healthcare of course it was not address it didn't really exist at the time to govern it.

                                We know a lot of things don't work, but we don't work on doing the things that do work. What we have now does not work for 47 million Americans and that number grows everyday. That number also only represents those who do not have insurance, it does not reflect those that have insurance but can't afford to use it unless they have a heart attack or something. We spend too much money on ads for big burgers and not enough on education and holding business accountable for their blunders. They changed the oil in french fries finally, but they continue to maxi size everything so, they should pay for the damages they create. They are selling snake oil to people, like the burgers will make them happy and social... at best it is all they can afford is the real reason they are there. So, make it a bit more healthy how about a little wheat in the bread, or grain, maybe some lettuce and tomato instead of paying more and more stock holders. The crux of this mess I think, and of course you don't have to agree that is what is so great about living here.. is that we don't have INVESTORS, we have GAMBLERS in the stock markets. They don't build anything, or create/invent.. instead they gamble on what goes up or down and expect big returns for sitting on their behinds. We give them huge tax breaks on unearned income and tax the heck out of earned income as if working for a living is worth less. Make stocks be investing in building and createing and maybe I will like big business a lot more and our country will do a lot better too. By the way.. have a great holiday weekend. I love this board because people discuss things. I think we are all so much close to the same principals then we realize. IF we could simply all talk instead of shouting... this board does that... I like that.. very cool!!

                                Comment

                                Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X