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How Are State Employment Benefits Viewed?

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  • How Are State Employment Benefits Viewed?

    Receiving State Employment Benefits, how could they ever factor what a person could pay back to credit card(s) over a 5-year period for a Chapter 13? I'm sure if all is well I'll be in a Chapter 7 but I'm just curious about this.

  • #2
    Please define. We live in FL. What are those benefits? Unemployment? Food stamp? So what is the deal a you gave no real detail or story. 'Hub
    If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

    Comment


    • #3
      My mistake for not making that clear. From the Unemployement Compensation Divsion when you're not working and receive the monetary amount based on the past quarters in which one has worked.

      I did the first step of the Means Test and apparently I'm going to make it for a Chapter 7 if I file in December since last May will drop off. After that first step, looking at the expenses and not really understanding this, I became frazzled and stopped.

      I'm going to a consultation late tomorrow afternoon and have a second scheduled Friday just to see what these say since I've learned a little more about the BK than I knew before. I do understand the $6,000 exemption routine that I'd been told about and will make that with the exception of having to pay back some on two vehicles that are paid for and keeping.

      And, I'm drawing on FL right now and Tallahassee told me that I can receive around $424/week for about 23 or 26 weeks if I file on Maryland, (where I've worked within Florida's quarter system), in January '11 when I could open a new claim if I so wish. (Around March '11 I'd be totally exhausted of FL benefits with no more extension for me.)

      My question is the amount we receive (I'm filing individually), I wonder how they ever could factor in how someone could ever pay on a Chapter 13 if the monies one receiving are not from a permanent, stable job and are from the State Employment Division which exhaust.

      I really would like to do this process myself but I just can't seem to get the process straight in my mind and questions like the one above are running to and fro in my head. Such as, for example, how can one state that they have a monthly expense from a dry cleaner when they're on these monthly benefits and can't afford to take clothes to a dry cleaners in the first place? How can one claim that or other similar expenses? That would fit into a lifestyle with a payroll wage earned but how does one claim they have X amt of certain expenses if these benefits can't cover all of it in the first place? Do we base it on expenses that we normally have such as when we're working and do more things such as going to a gym, etc.?

      Right now with being so frugal and already having the rent paid up, I can pretty much pay all the rest of the bills on my monthly income right now EXCEPT when it comes to monthly vehicle insurance which has already been paid for this six months. The home insurance has already been paid. So, how does that look when one needs to list a boatload of expenses that they have - that they're unable to pay? (I might be paying the bills but I'm not buying a lot of groceries that I might originally buy.)

      Spouse uses his monthly income for while he's visiting family and I've only needed very little from him so I was afraid that they might say we have extra income that we use to pay a debt but it's only employment benefits.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by platter View Post
        My mistake for not making that clear. From the Unemployement Compensation Divsion when you're not working and receive the monetary amount based on the past quarters in which one has worked.

        I did the first step of the Means Test and apparently I'm going to make it for a Chapter 7 if I file in December since last May will drop off. After that first step, looking at the expenses and not really understanding this, I became frazzled and stopped.

        I'm going to a consultation late tomorrow afternoon and have a second scheduled Friday just to see what these say since I've learned a little more about the BK than I knew before. I do understand the $6,000 exemption routine that I'd been told about and will make that with the exception of having to pay back some on two vehicles that are paid for and keeping.

        And, I'm drawing on FL right now and Tallahassee told me that I can receive around $424/week for about 23 or 26 weeks if I file on Maryland, (where I've worked within Florida's quarter system), in January '11 when I could open a new claim if I so wish. (Around March '11 I'd be totally exhausted of FL benefits with no more extension for me.)

        My question is the amount we receive (I'm filing individually), I wonder how they ever could factor in how someone could ever pay on a Chapter 13 if the monies one receiving are not from a permanent, stable job and are from the State Employment Division which exhaust.

        I really would like to do this process myself but I just can't seem to get the process straight in my mind and questions like the one above are running to and fro in my head. Such as, for example, how can one state that they have a monthly expense from a dry cleaner when they're on these monthly benefits and can't afford to take clothes to a dry cleaners in the first place? How can one claim that or other similar expenses? That would fit into a lifestyle with a payroll wage earned but how does one claim they have X amt of certain expenses if these benefits can't cover all of it in the first place? Do we base it on expenses that we normally have such as when we're working and do more things such as going to a gym, etc.?

        Right now with being so frugal and already having the rent paid up, I can pretty much pay all the rest of the bills on my monthly income right now EXCEPT when it comes to monthly vehicle insurance which has already been paid for this six months. The home insurance has already been paid. So, how does that look when one needs to list a boatload of expenses that they have - that they're unable to pay? (I might be paying the bills but I'm not buying a lot of groceries that I might originally buy.)

        Spouse uses his monthly income for while he's visiting family and I've only needed very little from him so I was afraid that they might say we have extra income that we use to pay a debt but it's only employment benefits.
        well it's indeed confusing in florida because it's not only going relies on what district you are filing in...but what county of that district to determine whether UI is exempt under the ss act.

        where we filed thankfully it was...however, right over in the very next county it is not ....go figure.

        also...just to give you a heads up...we interviewed 6 atty's....2 said it was protected under the act while 4 stated it was absolutely NOT....well...it WAS protected under the act.

        since i do not know where you live in florida, may i suggest that you go to the florida site to determine means test by county....that what you will have an idea of what is what...since many atty's just don't see to know..it's almost like they just hung or turned over their shingle to begin practicing bk since it's such a highly charged area of the law right now.

        best of luck platter...let us know how you make out.
        Last edited by tobee43; 10-27-2010, 09:25 AM. Reason: typos r me
        8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

        Comment


        • #5
          I had the consultation with another atty. I told him both of use were receiving the benefits and told him the amt for the past six months if I file in December. He glanced at the figure that I showed him and told him that I'd checked this twice and it was correct. (Of course I'm going to check again anyway though I've no doubt that I'm correct.) He pulled up the Means Test and glanced at it for *after November* (which if I recall correctly I had to jog his mind that it was changing on the 1st) and he said that we (I) would be eligible for Chapter 7, no doubt. (He said even if one of us went to work before filing that we'd still be okay because of how it would factor in since we've had such low income recently.)

          I approached the question as to whether the debtor could look at any of our money from these benefits to pay anything and he said no. Actually without directly questioning him on this, I figured if we couldn't count on that as income (or however it varies from county-to-county), he'd have told me. Now, I think he did *might've* said yes if it was a Chapter 13 because I recall at telling him point blank that I want a Chapter 7.

          So evidently it's okay to use the benefits as our income. I only saw the notice from the Congressional Committee Notes on the Unemployment Benefits being given special treatment. I really don't understand all this...none of the three consultations have said anything negative about us receiving the benefits and they knew that was the income. I'm sorry, I really don't understand this benefit being exempt.

          Overlook my stupidity please but, I really don't understand the meaning of exempt in this case. If they weren't exempt, then where does that land a person?

          This guy is almost $2,000. At one point in the discussion he mentioned that I could get a paralegal but I didn't want to appear as if I was paying too much attention to what he said. Of course he said that he would be going to court with me and I already know that I can probably handle whatever because even he said that they do so many cases in X amt of minutes.

          I got a few pertinent questions answered about a couple of older vehicles that were sent to salvage when they weren't worth trying to sell or keeping. He said to put them as junk even if we don't have a receipt (money in exchange for title and DH didn't keep any copy or anything....Rar!).

          I gave an older travel trailer to a friend that is retired has come to attend to my dogs in the home while I'm away in search of work. He has agreed to do this regardless of how many months it will take that I have to travel out. He said that would be considered in lieu of consideration or something like that because of the cost of my having to pay a dog sitter to come by or stay here. Also, I'll soon have to park the trailer in storage and right now that would be an unnecessary expense. When having to travel out, my co-worker friend refuses to have to search and pay extra for a motel that takes animals and it's a problem with the management wanting animals caged (or left in the bathroom with door shut) while the occupant is out of the room. I told the atty that I had to do what I had to do and he said it wouldn't be an issue.

          $2,000 is all I have to play with after the Homestead Exemption thingy and I see that as no problem. I've already been aware that I'll have to pay back 1/2 of two vehicles that are in both our names and they are older and not worth over $1,000 (but decent running and paid for) and then one in my name (paid for) and I think I'll end up paying the trustee about $3,000ish.

          I'm now back to the thought of using the paralegal service. The clerk is a German gal and seems to be very experienced (I know she can't give advise) and I like her straight-forwardness.

          I just can't mess up on missing a form or not understanding something and I know there's going to be times that I'll likely be here asking for an explanation, I'm sure. I'm attending a workshop on Resume Writing aside from this the stressful thing is that I'm having to input information into the Employ Florida jobsite system and for me it's been a headache having to become familiar with just how 'they' want info input ... and after a week I find out that they want my number of jobs clumped a different way (waste of one week trying to input accordingly to system and then told, for me, to do it differently) yadda, yadda, yadda.

          Because of the stress from dealing with them and their system ... I can't take the tension that I'm feeling on my forehead from trying to do this BK by myself. An extra $175 aside from the filing fee is okay for me to have a person to guide me with these forms. BK itself isn't affecting me emotionally, it's a result from this economy. But learning each and everything here is causing me to have to take Advil when I normally don't have to take Advil! (LoL)

          I still don't even know where the Schedule I and J is but was told that I have to do that. Which form is that on? Is that on Florida's form or some Federal form? (Don't laugh!)

          Sorrry about the rant and this being so long but just hope everyone will guide me through whatever those forms are going to present to me.

          Thanks for reading all of this, if you did.

          Comment


          • #6
            I recall the online Means Test from www.legalconsumer.com had a box detailing something about Unemployment Benefits.
            The atty looked at our benefits as our income so I guess it's okay. He didn't mention anything about being exempt or not but I did ask him if the Means Test that he looked at on his computer was okay for our county and he said yes. He never mentioned anything about exempt and non-exempt in certain counties.

            ??? What does one do if their county doesn't include it in their income or which one is good and which one is bad, I don't understand exempt with unemployment benefits.



            The following is taken from the page of a link I found in another thread.

            Statement of the U.S. Trustee's Position on Legal Issues Arriving Under the Chapter 7 Means TestLine 9, Unemployment Compensation

            Unemployment compensation is not a "benefit under under SSA" and should be included USTP opposes any entry in the boxes to the left of columns A and B

            http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa...ne_by_line.pdf

            Comment


            • #7
              One has to list unemployment compensation on their federal tax return as taxable income; therefore, unemployment benefits are income for the time period received.
              _________________________________________
              Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
              Early Buy-Out: April 2006
              Discharge: August 2006

              "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                One has to list unemployment compensation on their federal tax return as taxable income; therefore, unemployment benefits are income for the time period received.
                in our district it was NOT included on the means test, however, it was listed as temporary income on sch j. it was protected under the ss act in this county...however, is not viewed the same in the very next county.
                8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is a real stupid question, sorry, I have a college degree and I'm not a genius without common sense but this is all so new to me. If one is at the legalconsumer Means Test site and if you don't calculate it there in that test then what do you do to get an idea if you qualify or not? Where is the Schedule *J* because I recall in the consult that he said we'd have to do *I* and *J*.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    the schedules are on the petition itself...schedule "I" is current income and "J" is crrent expenditures.
                    8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I guess what I'm asking is if one wants to check first online on a Means Test to see if they qualify, if their county doesn't allow it, then they'd have to go to that *Schedule I* to check ahead of time if they qualify, right, instead of the Means Test first?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by platter View Post
                        I guess what I'm asking is if one wants to check first online on a Means Test to see if they qualify, if their county doesn't allow it, then they'd have to go to that *Schedule I* to check ahead of time if they qualify, right, instead of the Means Test first?
                        i'm looking at a copy of our actual "I" as i'm typing to you....and it does list the UI...however NEXT to it it says....on line #12 Unemployment Insurance..(temporary income ONLY)....that's right off our petition...

                        i do know this...our UI is up in abaout 3 weeks...no more extensions...no more 99 weeks....boy they kept that one a secret...didn't they...
                        8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          forgot to add.....which means if you are pulled into a 13....because of unemployment it's unreal...because once it stops you longer have a dime....
                          8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by platter View Post
                            I guess what I'm asking is if one wants to check first online on a Means Test to see if they qualify, if their county doesn't allow it, then they'd have to go to that *Schedule I* to check ahead of time if they qualify, right, instead of the Means Test first?
                            You hire a qualified attorney in your area. Bankruptcy is more than just filling out forms.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That would be a nightmare being pulled into a Chapter 13 and being on Unemployment Benefits! The atty immediately told me I'd qualify for 7 when he saw the income.


                              I know what you're talking about, that November 21st or 22nd is the date of another tier or something. I just exhausted one tier and was told that I'll be rolled over again from something from way back. Tallahassee told me it's really complicated to understand sometimes. My FL is due to totally exhaust in March '11 but since I worked in another state I can draw off them. Tallahassee said there's nothing new at this point about any new extensions. If I didn't have the other state, then I'd be in a real bind next March.

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