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Hey California, here's your answer to fiscal responsibility

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  • Hey California, here's your answer to fiscal responsibility

    Illinois tax increase: why lawmakers passed 66 percent income-tax hike

    No other state has successfully raised income taxes to balance its 2011 budget. The Illinois tax increase would push the personal income tax rate from 3 percent to 5 percent.


    January 12, 2011


    The Illinois legislature has passed personal income-tax increases of 66 percent and corporate income-tax in creases of 45 percent, designed to address a $15 billion state budget deficit that lawmakers said was leading the state into insolvency.

    By the early hours of Wednesday, Senate and House lawmakers had voted to raise the personal income tax rate from 3 percent to 5 percent and the corporate tax rate from 4.8 percent to 7 percent. Both rates were adjusted to carry through until 2015, when they would drop to 3.25 percent and 5.25 percent, respectively

    The Illinois tax increase, which is waiting to be signed into law by Gov. Pat Quinn (D), who supports the package, would take effect retroactively Jan. 1. The package was passed without a single Republican vote in either chamber.

    No other state has successfully raised income taxes to balance its 2011 budget, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures in Washington. Most states have turned to less politically risky measures to shore up state budgets, such as raising sales taxes for vending-machine purchases or delaying corporate-tax refunds for a year.

    “No other state had to [raise taxes],” says Ralph Martire, executive director of the Center for Tax and budget Accountability, a bipartisan think tank in Chicago. He describes the scope of the tax increases as “transformational.”

    But the financial crisis in Illinois is unusual. The state had no choice but to raise taxes, Mr. Martire says: Cutting spending was not a viable option because already, major cutbacks had been made and spending is at a historic low. Then there is the debt: The state already owes $8 billion to vendors, including social service agencies.

    Also, Illinois is facing $77.8 billion in underfunded pension liabilities, according to the state’s Commission on Government Forecasting and Accountability. This makes it the largest underfunded pension system in the United States.

    A more reasonable measure moving forward, Martire says, would be to overhaul the state’s tax system. He calls it “underperforming and antiquated” for not addressing modern tax growth, leaving out the service sector in its sales tax, and not taxing according to income, which he says hurts lower- to middle-income families.

    Illinois is one of only a handful of states that still operate with a flat-rate tax standard regardless of income, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Even with the 2011 adjustments, Illinois would have one of the lowest tax rates in the nation, but the rates across the US are hard to pin down because most states, such as Iowa, have up to nine different tax rates for personal income.

    “In terms of taxable income, it’s not always an easy comparison to make [between states],” says Arturo Pérez, a fiscal analyst with the organization.

    Republicans criticized the Illinois package, saying that it would force companies to move to neighboring states and that lawmakers would use the tax revenue only to increase spending, thus bankrupting the state. “Here’s an investment tip for you: Put your money in moving vans. They’ll be in high demand,” state Sen. Kyle McCarter (R) said during debate of the package.

    State Democrats lauded the package for an extra twist: A spending cap would limit state spending through 2015. If lawmakers were caught exceeding the new limits, the new tax rates would revert to their original rates.

    “This is not a game, not a trick ... we’re really trying to handcuff ourselves and the governor in our spending,” said Illinois Senate president John Cullerton (D), according to the Chicago Tribune.


    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/01...ncome-tax-hike

    ------------------------------

    While we go under as individuals, cities now in bk, and some states about to fold, Illinois has found a wonderful solution to bailing the state out which of course you know will financially aid all IL Citizens.
    Last edited by AngelinaCat; 01-12-2011, 07:51 PM.
    If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

  • #2
    CA Governer Jerry Brown just submitted his proposed budget. It is full of huge spending cuts on everything except K-12 eduction and shifts many services to local governments. The budget depends on the voters approving a ballot measure to extend expiring "temporary" increases in income and sales tax and vehicle license fees. If the voters don't approve the extensions, K-12 education would be cut. Getting the measure on the ballot requires a 2/3 vote of the state legislature which will be tuff.

    I don't know about IL, but in CA the voters want all the services, but don't want to pay for them. The Democrats don't want to cut spending and the republicans don't want to raise taxes. Meanwhile, the voters keep passing initiatives that requires certain funding minimums and tie the legistlature's hands on where they can actually cut. Everybody will hate the proposed budget. I don't know what other choice there is. The proposed cuts are already going to be painful. We can't continue to balance the budget by borrowing and shifting funds from one pocket to the other with plans to replenish the first pocket later, like we've been doing the past 3 years. Doing that with our personal finances is what brought many of us to this board.

    Here's the story on the CA budget proposal: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...d-very-painful
    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
      CA Governer Jerry Brown just submitted his proposed budget. It is full of huge spending cuts on everything except K-12 eduction and shifts many services to local governments. The budget depends on the voters approving a ballot measure to extend expiring "temporary" increases in income and sales tax and vehicle license fees. If the voters don't approve the extensions, K-12 education would be cut. Getting the measure on the ballot requires a 2/3 vote of the state legislature which will be tuff.

      I don't know about IL, but in CA the voters want all the services, but don't want to pay for them. The Democrats don't want to cut spending and the republicans don't want to raise taxes. Meanwhile, the voters keep passing initiatives that requires certain funding minimums and tie the legistlature's hands on where they can actually cut. Everybody will hate the proposed budget. I don't know what other choice there is. The proposed cuts are already going to be painful. We can't continue to balance the budget by borrowing and shifting funds from one pocket to the other with plans to replenish the first pocket later, like we've been doing the past 3 years. Doing that with our personal finances is what brought many of us to this board.

      Here's the story on the CA budget proposal: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...d-very-painful
      Thanks L in R. I was being a bit sarcastic about IL, and I was never a fan of Brown, but I must say, I'm impressed. The ponzie scheme is running its course. After robbing Peter to pay Paul, then Peter expects interest and Paul pays it until "we all fall down". I lived in Chicago a while and let me tell you, that is the most corrupt State and area this side of Sodom. You buy a permit to do something then you buy the job to pass the inspection.

      Real fact is if people REALLY knew how bad off we are, there would be a very laud cry for the tar and feathers. Look around your area, as we do. Nice houses by the day go vacant. Meaning of this? Lost work, reduction in salary and/or bk. Note the vast amount of newbies by the day. I hope Brown does get it together and succeeds. I don't believe there is hope for Illinois from what I know of it. TX and FL by law have a balanced budget yet we are into our 'rainy day' funds right now. Still no income taxes and one reason Florida and TX is still holding it's own. Mrs. C was a victim of City cut backs starting in '07. Can't find full time work as she is too qualified, and too old. (late 50's). I also was a victim of same as I was their chief I/T person as a contractor and have not been asked back since wife was let go. 'Hub
      If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
        CA Governer Jerry Brown just submitted his proposed budget. It is full of huge spending cuts on everything except K-12 eduction and shifts many services to local governments. The budget depends on the voters approving a ballot measure to extend expiring "temporary" increases in income and sales tax and vehicle license fees. If the voters don't approve the extensions, K-12 education would be cut. Getting the measure on the ballot requires a 2/3 vote of the state legislature which will be tuff.

        I don't know about IL, but in CA the voters want all the services, but don't want to pay for them. The Democrats don't want to cut spending and the republicans don't want to raise taxes. Meanwhile, the voters keep passing initiatives that requires certain funding minimums and tie the legistlature's hands on where they can actually cut. Everybody will hate the proposed budget. I don't know what other choice there is. The proposed cuts are already going to be painful. We can't continue to balance the budget by borrowing and shifting funds from one pocket to the other with plans to replenish the first pocket later, like we've been doing the past 3 years. Doing that with our personal finances is what brought many of us to this board.

        Here's the story on the CA budget proposal: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...d-very-painful
        The real problem in CA is that we do not have a democracy when the minority can so easily block taxes. It takes a 2/3rds majority to increase taxes. That has pretty much proved insurmountable and therefore 1/3rd of the people control the purse strings. Governor Brown made a tough budget proposal cutting the deficit 1/2 with cuts and 1/2 with taxes. It will be interesting to see were it goes.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by msm859 View Post
          The real problem in CA is that we do not have a democracy when the minority can so easily block taxes. It takes a 2/3rds majority to increase taxes. That has pretty much proved insurmountable and therefore 1/3rd of the people control the purse strings. Governor Brown made a tough budget proposal cutting the deficit 1/2 with cuts and 1/2 with taxes. It will be interesting to see were it goes.
          With the amount of every tax that can be dreamed of are inflicted upon you poor people, the only way out is bankruptcy, then watch the other states fall. That or succeed from the Union. That was tried before. 'Hub
          If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

          Comment


          • #6
            The tax increases will fail as they always do. The taxpayers will migrate to where the taxes are lower.

            The people paying all the taxes in these states will just leave and make the problem worse for the suckers that stay.

            It's the same with the country as a whole. As long as we have the highest corporate taxes in the world as we currently do the jobs will just keep on being sent off shore and the wealthy will also keep on leaving as they are.

            They are taxing their way into the entire nation looking like Detroit.
            The essence of freedom is the proper limitation of Government

            Comment


            • #7
              And Illinois personal income tax rate increase is still lower than many other states rates.

              http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.pdf

              Originally posted by AngelinaCatHub View Post
              Illinois tax increase: why lawmakers passed 66 percent income-tax hike

              No other state has successfully raised income taxes to balance its 2011 budget. The Illinois tax increase would push the personal income tax rate from 3 percent to 5 percent.


              January 12, 2011


              The Illinois legislature has passed personal income-tax increases of 66 percent and corporate income-tax in creases of 45 percent, designed to address a $15 billion state budget deficit that lawmakers said was leading the state into insolvency.

              By the early hours of Wednesday, Senate and House lawmakers had voted to raise the personal income tax rate from 3 percent to 5 percent and the corporate tax rate from 4.8 percent to 7 percent. Both rates were adjusted to carry through until 2015, when they would drop to 3.25 percent and 5.25 percent, respectively

              The Illinois tax increase, which is waiting to be signed into law by Gov. Pat Quinn (D), who supports the package, would take effect retroactively Jan. 1. The package was passed without a single Republican vote in either chamber.

              No other state has successfully raised income taxes to balance its 2011 budget, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures in Washington. Most states have turned to less politically risky measures to shore up state budgets, such as raising sales taxes for vending-machine purchases or delaying corporate-tax refunds for a year.

              “No other state had to [raise taxes],” says Ralph Martire, executive director of the Center for Tax and budget Accountability, a bipartisan think tank in Chicago. He describes the scope of the tax increases as “transformational.”

              But the financial crisis in Illinois is unusual. The state had no choice but to raise taxes, Mr. Martire says: Cutting spending was not a viable option because already, major cutbacks had been made and spending is at a historic low. Then there is the debt: The state already owes $8 billion to vendors, including social service agencies.

              Also, Illinois is facing $77.8 billion in underfunded pension liabilities, according to the state’s Commission on Government Forecasting and Accountability. This makes it the largest underfunded pension system in the United States.

              A more reasonable measure moving forward, Martire says, would be to overhaul the state’s tax system. He calls it “underperforming and antiquated” for not addressing modern tax growth, leaving out the service sector in its sales tax, and not taxing according to income, which he says hurts lower- to middle-income families.

              Illinois is one of only a handful of states that still operate with a flat-rate tax standard regardless of income, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Even with the 2011 adjustments, Illinois would have one of the lowest tax rates in the nation, but the rates across the US are hard to pin down because most states, such as Iowa, have up to nine different tax rates for personal income.

              “In terms of taxable income, it’s not always an easy comparison to make [between states],” says Arturo Pérez, a fiscal analyst with the organization.

              Republicans criticized the Illinois package, saying that it would force companies to move to neighboring states and that lawmakers would use the tax revenue only to increase spending, thus bankrupting the state. “Here’s an investment tip for you: Put your money in moving vans. They’ll be in high demand,” state Sen. Kyle McCarter (R) said during debate of the package.

              State Democrats lauded the package for an extra twist: A spending cap would limit state spending through 2015. If lawmakers were caught exceeding the new limits, the new tax rates would revert to their original rates.

              “This is not a game, not a trick ... we’re really trying to handcuff ourselves and the governor in our spending,” said Illinois Senate president John Cullerton (D), according to the Chicago Tribune.


              http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/01...ncome-tax-hike

              ------------------------------

              While we go under as individuals, cities now in bk, and some states about to fold, Illinois has found a wonderful solution to bailing the state out which of course you know will financially aid all IL Citizens.

              Comment


              • #8
                My excuse to employers who interview me when they ask why I went bankrupt will be to include that my country is in the red, my state (California is in the red), my city Los Angeles is in the red, my car company GM went bankrupt, my mortgage company Indymac had to be bailed out by the government, my bank, washington mutual had to be bailed out by the government/Chase.

                Can you not see how with all that going on, that a simple individual could go bankrupt as well?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by helpme2010 View Post
                  My excuse to employers who interview me when they ask why I went bankrupt will be to include that my country is in the red, my state (California is in the red), my city Los Angeles is in the red, my car company GM went bankrupt, my mortgage company Indymac had to be bailed out by the government, my bank, washington mutual had to be bailed out by the government/Chase.

                  Can you not see how with all that going on, that a simple individual could go bankrupt as well?

                  You should probably give anyone that asks why you went bankrupt your attorney's card, providing you had a good attorney since there's a good chance they too will be filing. This is of course assuming they can hold out until the hyper-inflationary depression that has a 99.9% chance of of coming finally comes. Then they will pay off the house and cc's and then starve or freeze to death.

                  During the "good times" of several years ago I know of several people that looked down or laughed at people that filed and they wound up filing as well.

                  No one knows what the future holds.
                  The essence of freedom is the proper limitation of Government

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by banca rotta View Post
                    The tax increases will fail as they always do. The taxpayers will migrate to where the taxes are lower.

                    The people paying all the taxes in these states will just leave and make the problem worse for the suckers that stay.

                    It's the same with the country as a whole. As long as we have the highest corporate taxes in the world as we currently do the jobs will just keep on being sent off shore and the wealthy will also keep on leaving as they are.

                    They are taxing their way into the entire nation looking like Detroit.
                    It is interesting to hear others talk about all the high taxes in CA and how everyone is going to leave, yet the population continues to grow. And shipping jobs overseas has Nothing to do with corporate "tax" rates. It has to do that the only thing that matters to "American" corporations is how much money they can make. Thus, when they can hire workers in other countries at slave wages -- they will do so. There is no longer any corporate morality. Lowering corporate taxes will only exacerbate the problems in this country. Greed has taken over everything in this country and people are being spoon fed this notion that high taxes is the problem. It could not be further from the truth. This latest "tax compromise" to extend the Bush tax cuts is a Trojan Horse that is going to wreak havoc on our future.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Proud to be a bankrupt and foreclosed member of the corporation of california!!! Hey maybe we can have some kick a$$ riots after they jack up the taxes like the Brits did when they tripled their college fees. Hey the rioting will cut back on my entertainment expenses and I should be able to find some good scrap metal to sell for profit. Oh and selling the videos to the media, that will raise a little cash as well.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by helpme2010 View Post
                        Proud to be a bankrupt and foreclosed member of the corporation of california!!! Hey maybe we can have some kick a$$ riots after they jack up the taxes like the Brits did when they tripled their college fees. Hey the rioting will cut back on my entertainment expenses and I should be able to find some good scrap metal to sell for profit. Oh and selling the videos to the media, that will raise a little cash as well.
                        Actually, CA needs to address some of the structural reasons for the annual budget problems. Prop 13 has been great for corps, not so for the average person. Since corporate owned buildings never change "owners" they should allow adjustments to potentially go up 4% per year instead of 2% for people. They should also legalize marijuana and tax it. Then for the big bonus turn Alcatraz Island into sin city and really generate some state revenue.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jacko View Post
                          And Illinois personal income tax rate increase is still lower than many other states rates.

                          http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.pdf
                          Not lower than FL or TX that are doing a hell of a lot better than CA and IL. Like jumping off a 12 story building, eleven story's "so far, so good".

                          Originally posted by helpme2010 View Post
                          My excuse to employers who interview me when they ask why I went bankrupt will be to include that my country is in the red, my state (California is in the red), my city Los Angeles is in the red, my car company GM went bankrupt, my mortgage company Indymac had to be bailed out by the government, my bank, washington mutual had to be bailed out by the government/Chase.

                          Can you not see how with all that going on, that a simple individual could go bankrupt as well?
                          Very good argument.

                          Originally posted by msm859 View Post
                          It is interesting to hear others talk about all the high taxes in CA and how everyone is going to leave, yet the population continues to grow. And shipping jobs overseas has Nothing to do with corporate "tax" rates. It has to do that the only thing that matters to "American" corporations is how much money they can make. Thus, when they can hire workers in other countries at slave wages -- they will do so. There is no longer any corporate morality. Lowering corporate taxes will only exacerbate the problems in this country. Greed has taken over everything in this country and people are being spoon fed this notion that high taxes is the problem. It could not be further from the truth. This latest "tax compromise" to extend the Bush tax cuts is a Trojan Horse that is going to wreak havoc on our future.
                          "Greed" is what capitalism is about. "Greed" is a misnomer in that you wish to make a profit for your work, intellect, or investment. Aren't you right now, a bit "GREEDY" trying to bankrupt against those who were kind enough to loan you money by "cheating" them by not paying them back? Consider this in the same light you posted. You are GREEDY. In other words, you need to get ahead and prosper. Those big companies that employ you are not charities. They are GREEDY wishing to make money. You ain't gonna get a job from a bankrupt company. Think!!

                          BTW, think NAFTA, and how we pushed our 'dirty work' over seas. WE shipped all the machinery to China to make steel. There is no U.S. Steel now. We ship crunched cars now to China and get microwave ovens back. Go to any hardware store and purchase a tool. China. China killed my cat with cutting quality and putting plastic filler into the cat food.

                          Greed starts with our Government paying (our tax money) to places like Brazil to drill for oil in OUR Gulf while PresBO blocks all U.S. drilling for seven years. So, who is greedy?

                          Originally posted by msm859 View Post
                          Actually, CA needs to address some of the structural reasons for the annual budget problems. Prop 13 has been great for corps, not so for the average person. Since corporate owned buildings never change "owners" they should allow adjustments to potentially go up 4% per year instead of 2% for people. They should also legalize marijuana and tax it. Then for the big bonus turn Alcatraz Island into sin city and really generate some state revenue.
                          I'm for the legalization of ALL drugs. Tax it high and make selling it a capital crime out of the legal system. Pick up the bodies overdosing and give them a lime grave, no emergency room aid, and that will cure many crime scenes. If legalized those who use, better do it at home and wisely. No more prison time for a few sticks of 'weed'.

                          This will empty our prisons of drug related ownership. Make the crap legal and pick up the pieces with that tax money.

                          My opinion only. 'Hub
                          If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AngelinaCatHub View Post


                            "Greed" is what capitalism is about. "Greed" is a misnomer in that you wish to make a profit for your work, intellect, or investment. Aren't you right now, a bit "GREEDY" trying to bankrupt against those who were kind enough to loan you money by "cheating" them by not paying them back? Consider this in the same light you posted. You are GREEDY. In other words, you need to get ahead and prosper. Those big companies that employ you are not charities. They are GREEDY wishing to make money. You ain't gonna get a job from a bankrupt company. Think!!

                            Greed starts with our Government paying (our tax money) to places like Brazil to drill for oil in OUR Gulf while PresBO blocks all U.S. drilling for seven years. So, who is greedy?

                            My opinion only. 'Hub
                            Well I would disagree with your definition of "greed". From Wilkipedia:
                            Greed is an excessive desire to possess wealth or goods with the intention to keep it for one's self. Greed - like lust and gluttony - is a sin of excess. Greed is inappropriate expectation. However, greed is applied to a very excessive or rapacious desire and pursuit of wealth, status, and power.

                            As a secular psychological concept, greed is an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.

                            I doubt the motivation for too many to file bk is greed. Perhaps greed has contributed to the financial condition of some. However, I suspect for most it would not.
                            To answer your direct question to me, no I do not feel at all "greedy" having filed bk. I would not have preferred it at all. However, to justify to me it is survival. I did absolutely nothing to contribute to the economic meltdown. i bought a lot in 2000 to build my own house. Was physically involved and moved in at the end of 2004 -- still not done. Finished it over the next several years. By 2009 had lost several hundred thousand in equity because of the meltdown. Wife lost job and went to modify loan. Had to be late to qualify so I missed a few payments. After that all of my "kind" creditors either slashed my credit lines, raised rates or closed accounts -- even though they had ALL been paid on time -- or even had zero balances. So after 30+ years of Never missing a payment to anyone I made the business decision that bk was necessary for the survival of my family. My story like many others was brought about by greed of others -- banks, corporations and politicians. The concentration of wealth in so few will be the ruin of this country. Kind of like the game of monopoly -- it is no longer any fun when only one person owns everything.
                            I am all for rewarding hard work and excellence but too many men succumb to the ever alluring power of greed which is why there must be checks and balances -- a strong democratic government. Today I would say we have more of a plutocracy and are sinking fast.

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                            • #15
                              We dont need a tax increase in california, we need fiscal responsibility. the Repubs in the Legislature sold us out last year when they promised to hold the line on a tax increase.

                              We have a Gigantic Ilegal alien problem here consuming services at an alarming rate. Millions of Ilegals are in state prisons causing a big financial burden by increasing the need for prison guards who are one of the largest and powerful unions in the state.

                              The Democrats running most of our state ignor the problem, as they see ilegal Hispanics as future liberal voters and key to their survival. The Repubs ignor the problem so they wont be labled Racist, and they like cheap labor for house servants.

                              So in the meantime the rest of us suffer. Teachers are disgusted and changing careers because they are fed up trying to teach kids who cant speak proper english, have no intererst in education and no encouragement from the family to do so. it's embedded in the culture.
                              I know this, as I have family and friends in education, and that is what they tell me.

                              There are many, many other issues, but increasing our taxes will just open the door for them to do it again, instead of becoming fiscally responsible.

                              Personally, we have way more than our share of freeloaders in this state drawn here just because we wont make the hard decisions and just say "NO"
                              Stopped Paying CC's 2/2009. Retained Attorney 1/10/2010 Filed 1/23/2010. Discharged 5/19/10 $187K CC, $240K 2nd,$417K 1st, No asset Ch-7

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