Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

$288 in unpaid fees, homeowner association took her home

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • $288 in unpaid fees, homeowner association took her home

    January 8, 2014 By Michelle Conlin of Reuters

    Foreclosure by homeowner associations over missed fees becoming more common since recession has emptied neighborhoods.

    For six years, Ingrid Boak, who travels a lot for work as a racehorse trainer, ignored mail from her homeowner association.
    Boak, of Lexington, Kentucky, says the letters were requests for $48 in annual fees for upkeep of the tidy neighborhood of one-story brick homes. Because she didn't use the clubhouse or pool, or participate in social activities sponsored by the association, she didn't think she needed to pay. Last September, while she was away, a neighbor called to tell her about a handwritten sign tacked to her front door. It said her house had been sold.

    Masterson Station Neighborhood Association had foreclosed on her $120,000 home because she had $288 in unpaid dues, according to the association's lawyer, Nathan Billings. Boak was sent nearly 30 notices before her property was foreclosed on, he said; the dues were mandatory association fees.

    Boak says she does not remember seeing a foreclosure notice, and no one served her papers in person. She likens the experience to her father's in East Germany, where the communist state took away property rights. "Now I'm 75, and the same thing is happening to me, in America," she says. With her once-good credit damaged, she is unable to buy another house, and now rents her old one from the new owner for $900 a month.

    The Community Associations Institute, an advocacy group for homeowner associations, says foreclosures are a last resort, but also a matter of fairness: Neighbors who pay shouldn't be penalized by neighbors who don't. "It's a community, but it has to be run like a business," says spokesman Frank Rathbun.

    FEWER POTHOLES, FEWER RIGHTS

    Homeowner associations first took off in the 1970s as local governments looked for a way to offload costly services, such as snow removal and road repair. Municipalities have encouraged their growth since through tax incentives and zoning laws.

    Today some 63 million Americans live in homeowner associations, up from 2.1 million in 1970. Four out of five buyers of new homes, including condominiums, end up in such communities.

    Supporters point out that they provide services and amenities that preserve the community's character and property values. Some 70 percent of residents say they have a positive experience living in them, according to the Community Associations Institute.

    "I live in a community association that provides a wonderful home for me and my family, a wonderful neighborhood and community pool, and that's the way many Americans feel," says Robert Nordlund, a resident of Calabasas, California, and founder of Association Reserves, which helps associations with budget and operational issues.

    But people who buy houses in an association often don't bother to read the agreements that spell out what covenants owners are obliged to observe. They may unknowingly forfeit the right to fly a flag in the front yard, let a shrub grow any old size, or allow their kids to shoot hoops in the driveway.

    Homeowner associations typically have the right to place liens against wayward residents. Either through a court or state-regulated process, they can then foreclose on houses worth hundreds of thousands of dollars even for a few hundred dollars of unpaid debt, much like a municipality can for unpaid property taxes or a bank for a few missed mortgage payments.

    FAILURE OF FUNDING


    Foreclosures on delinquent properties by homeowner associations were almost unheard of before the financial crisis of 2008. Now lawyers and real estate researchers say they are becoming more common as association funding bases shrink because of previously foreclosed homes' standing empty.

    About 70 percent of association-governed communities are underfunded, up 12.5 percent from 10 years ago, according to Association Reserves. The average association has financial reserve accounts — the amount required to maintain infrastructure and common areas — that are only funded at 52 percent, down from 60 percent a decade ago, its research shows.

    Tyler Berding, an attorney whose firm is consulting with a San Francisco condo homeowner association, suggests the problem is one of governance. "It's very much akin to the public pension crisis," he said. "Homeowners' associations are simply not putting enough money away to make the repairs and replacements they will have to make over time." The condo in question is having to levy a $70,000 special assessment against each resident to restore the building.

    DOG DNA TESTING


    Another reason for underfunding is the inexperience of administrators, often volunteers from the community itself who possess some of the same powers as banks and governments but operate with little of the oversight. Even though these board members oversee what are often multi-million-dollar operations, they require no licensing or training to do their jobs.

    Without that discipline, many are now responding to the homeowner association funding crisis by aggressively going after residents for unpaid bills and penalizing them for infractions that would have been overlooked in the past.

    Brian Hanrahan of Columbia, Maryland, had a truck that was running fine. But his condominium association board, believing otherwise, towed it away, using a rule that allowed the removal of inoperable vehicles. The association slapped him with a $200 bill for the towing, which Hanrahan decided to fight in court.

    The ensuing litigation cost the association about $175,000. In court documents it said about $70,000 of that was Hanrahan's responsibility because of what it spent "enforcing the governing documents."

    Hanrahan won the case and subsequent appeals in a Maryland court. According to his lawyer, Larry Holzman, the case was settled for an undisclosed sum. Holzman has since been hired by the association and declined to comment on its behalf.

    Another association, the Villa Medici Condominiums in Jacksonville, Florida, decided to cancel its dog-waste removal service to save money and force errant residents to comply with community rules. In November the board instituted mandatory, $35 DNA testing for all dogs by a company called PooPrints, as a way to identify members who do not pick up after their pets. Delinquent owners face a fine of $100 a day, which can eventually rise to $1,000 for repeat offenders.

    "People are furious," said Gunilla Craven, a resident and former board member.

    The association did not respond to requests for comment.

    PUSHING BACK

    Residents can fight something like a foreclosure notice by hiring lawyers, but not everyone wants to take on expensive litigation the way Hanrahan did. Boak, who lost about $30,000 on the value of her house because of the foreclosure, said she didn't want to lose any more on a lawyer.

    Over the past decade, a citizen movement has grown to curb the power of homeowner associations, which remain largely unregulated. Nevada is just one state that has appointed an ombudsman to field complaints from homeowners; California and others have passed statutes limiting the assessment increases boards can make without consulting homeowners.

    Boak's local Urban County Council member, Shevawn Akers, is pressing Kentucky state government to draft legislation that would prohibit a homeowner association from foreclosing — or at least from doing so before it proved that the homeowner had received written notice. State politicians have yet to take up her proposal.

    "This is just beyond overboard," Akers said.

    Boak isn't the only one who paid a price for ignoring her mail. For four years, Colorado's Woodmen Hills Filing Number 11 Design Review Council sent Christopher Wright notices for late payments that eventually reached $900, said the homeowner association's attorney, Jerry Orten. But Wright, who told southern Colorado NBC affiliate KOAA that he thought the notices were fines for keeping his kids' bikes outside, never responded.

    Wright, who could not be reached for comment, was served in March with paperwork to foreclose. His $350,000 house recently sold at auction for $10,900.

    http://news.msn.com/in-depth/dollar2...-took-her-home
    "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

    "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

  • #2
    All of this can be summed up nicely in just 10 words: DO NOT EVER BUY A HOUSE IN A HOA COMMUNITY. And of course, one should promptly and vigorously respond to any invoices or legal notices which they disagree with.

    Comment


    • #3
      If you explore the web you can find worse cases of HOA abuse on homeowners and all done within the law. What is wrong with the people who legislate these laws giving HOA's unlimited power?

      In my HOA I was told by the general manager that the HOA is above the law and can make their own rules and methods of enforcement. I laughed until I learned he was right.

      I went to my HOA for permission to have a tree that was about to fall on my house removed. I got the permission in writing. After having the tree removed I was fined for $1150. I went to one attorney who advised to to pay the fine rather than pay him to fight it. This is nothing more than extortion. I was told I could get time payment if I asked the HOA. I see that as admitting I was wrong when I was not. Instead I opted to surrender my house after filing chapter 7 and paying an attorney for bankruptcy services.

      I am now waiting for either the HOA or bank to foreclose so I can file.

      One major problem is that no homeowner I know, and asked, were ever made aware that the HOA they were buying into had such unlimited powers. I know now what a non judicial foreclosure state is and also learned I am in a state, TN, that allows HOA's the power of super liens. When anyone sits down to finalize the purchase of a house the process is drawn out the buyer relies on their RE agent or attorney to caution them when necessary. Instead they, as I was, told it all standard, nothing to be concerned about. I lived here three years and never knew what could happen with my HOA given such
      Fascist powers. When a HO in an HOA has a run-in or financial problems involving the HOA what happens next comes as a complete surprise. Many of these HO's are seniors in ill heath and on heavy medications suffering the ravages of aging. The end result is the loss of their homes over a few hundred dollars with the HOA reselling sometimes at 3800% profit or renting the unfairly seized property at top rental rates. All this is happening in America???

      I now go to any forum I can find and tell my story warning others of the perils of buying into a HOA. I can tell you I have received many thank-you's for the warnings.

      AngelinaCat, thanks for your post.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by nioka View Post
        If you explore the web you can find worse cases of HOA abuse on homeowners and all done within the law. What is wrong with the people who legislate these laws giving HOA's unlimited power?

        In my HOA I was told by the general manager that the HOA is above the law and can make their own rules and methods of enforcement. I laughed until I learned he was right.

        I went to my HOA for permission to have a tree that was about to fall on my house removed. I got the permission in writing. After having the tree removed I was fined for $1150. I went to one attorney who advised to to pay the fine rather than pay him to fight it. This is nothing more than extortion. I was told I could get time payment if I asked the HOA. I see that as admitting I was wrong when I was not. Instead I opted to surrender my house after filing chapter 7 and paying an attorney for bankruptcy services.

        I am now waiting for either the HOA or bank to foreclose so I can file.

        One major problem is that no homeowner I know, and asked, were ever made aware that the HOA they were buying into had such unlimited powers. I know now what a non judicial foreclosure state is and also learned I am in a state, TN, that allows HOA's the power of super liens. When anyone sits down to finalize the purchase of a house the process is drawn out the buyer relies on their RE agent or attorney to caution them when necessary. Instead they, as I was, told it all standard, nothing to be concerned about. I lived here three years and never knew what could happen with my HOA given such
        Fascist powers. When a HO in an HOA has a run-in or financial problems involving the HOA what happens next comes as a complete surprise. Many of these HO's are seniors in ill heath and on heavy medications suffering the ravages of aging. The end result is the loss of their homes over a few hundred dollars with the HOA reselling sometimes at 3800% profit or renting the unfairly seized property at top rental rates. All this is happening in America???

        I now go to any forum I can find and tell my story warning others of the perils of buying into a HOA. I can tell you I have received many thank-you's for the warnings.

        AngelinaCat, thanks for your post.
        Nioka, yours and stories by other posters about HOAs is why I posted this article as soon as I found it.
        "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

        "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

        Comment


        • #5
          I certainly understand the strong negative reaction to HOA abuses, but in the examples cited in the original story, the homeowners were certainly negligent by ignoring the notices. Now the punishment was not proportionate to the offense, but the consequences were spelled out when they bought their homes and in these cases they have no one to blame but themselves. In other cases there are clear abuses and when folks fall on hard times there is little to no sympathy. I would like to see some oversight and regulation in place to curb abuses.

          In my own experience I have lived in a number of neighborhoods with HOAs and my experiences have been positive. In fact, I just bought a new house in an HOA and I'm very happy. I've got a community swimming pool, parks and playgrounds, a dog park, walking trails and a fitness center that I don't have to personally maintain and my HOA fees are less than the cost of a cheap gym membership. They may not always stay that way and I am aware of the provisions for increases and special assessments. I did read through my HOA governing documents thoroughly before we bought, but I do have neighbors that have obviously never read theirs so they do get surprised from time to time.
          Case Closed > 2/08/2010

          Comment


          • #6
            Aggressive HOAs are a terrible abomination. The association were created by the homeowners to protect the homeowners from urban (or suburban) decay. What many HOAs are doing is nothing but hiding behind the guise of protecting homeowners from themselves!

            (In any event, a mortgaged property is not technically sold for $10,000. The lien is sold to someone who hopes to, when the primary mortgagor forecloses, will get a carve out. Some association deed speculators do this and may even rent out the property until the first mortgage forecloses. At least in Florida, the HOA's lien is inferior to a first mortgage. Even if the HOA forecloses their lien, they either pay the mortgage (and rent the place out) or wait for the bank to foreclose; the latter being what most HOAs want anyhow.)

            If you think HOAs are bad, tax deeds are sold the same way and a tax deed is superior to the first mortgage.
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BobMango View Post
              I certainly understand the strong negative reaction to HOA abuses, but in the examples cited in the original story, the homeowners were certainly negligent by ignoring the notices. Now the punishment was not proportionate to the offense, but the consequences were spelled out when they bought their homes and in these cases they have no one to blame but themselves. In other cases there are clear abuses and when folks fall on hard times there is little to no sympathy. I would like to see some oversight and regulation in place to curb abuses.

              In my own experience I have lived in a number of neighborhoods with HOAs and my experiences have been positive. In fact, I just bought a new house in an HOA and I'm very happy. I've got a community swimming pool, parks and playgrounds, a dog park, walking trails and a fitness center that I don't have to personally maintain and my HOA fees are less than the cost of a cheap gym membership. They may not always stay that way and I am aware of the provisions for increases and special assessments. I did read through my HOA governing documents thoroughly before we bought, but I do have neighbors that have obviously never read theirs so they do get surprised from time to time.
              The problem with your statement is that the powers of the HOA current day are not spelled out. Most people buying a home are unaware of the "new" laws given HOA's. The first time I heard, "non-judicial foreclosure and super liens", was when I joined BK Forum. Many people, like myself, travel a distance to a settlement. They arrive tired and anxious. They depend on their buyer's agent or attorney to guide them. Regardless they are pushed to sign an mountain of paperwork. Then come the HOA paperwork of which they are told, as I was, this is all standard no need to concern yourself. Being tried and trusting they signed the HOA documents and have no idea what they just let themselves in for.
              Many will go forward and never have a problem. Others will be ambushed by medical problems or unseen financial woes only to be prayed upon by their HOA like a vulture waiting for the dying to pass. Yet you say, let the buyer beware. They bring it on themselves. I say the HOA powers of today are nothing more than thievery and extortion.

              I urge anyone buying a home to never buy in an HOA.

              Comment


              • #8
                Forget signing the HOA declarations. At my closing, I was not given a copy of the HOA CC&Rs! I signed some Planned Unit Development (PUD) "rider", but that was it. I wonder if that was even binding, but i'm sure any PUD, err HOA, would fight me on the issue of having never been given the CC&Rs!
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I hate HOAs and will never again live in an HOA community. When I read the story above, the first thing I thought was that someone needs to take a reeeaally close look at the buyers. Is it only the houses free of mortgages that get foreclosed by HOAs? Someone is making off like a bandit; I wouldn't be surprised if the new owners are HOA officers.
                  Filed non-consumer no asset Chapter 7 on 7-12-10 after 4 foreclosures, 7 lawsuits including 2 deficiencies, 2 wage garnishments, a bank garnishment and a partridge in a pear tree. 341 held on 8-11-10. Discharge 11-4-10.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As if HOA's weren't bad enough here is another form of scum. I cannot understand how an HOA foreclosure can be carried through to eviction with the first lien unsatisfied.

                    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...es-4861630.php

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      i am happy to report here in florida many of the laws are beginning to change.

                      also under stand this please. many of the banks have just abandoned these homes, HOAs are paying for their up keep etc. that's why we started going after foreclosing not to get the people that were the owners, but to get the banks to move on them. i hate to say this is part of the way i make my living. but i also want you to know if there still is the original family living on the premises we help them. however, renters are a different story.

                      remember there are 3 sides to every HOA story and although there are many aggressive, nasty ones out there, there are some good ones that do everything they can, including paying a mortgage payment or two to help them out. you think the bank will not step in for $288? the point is the HOA wants the house cleaned up and back on the market.

                      do not throw prune pits at me please
                      8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nioka View Post
                        As if HOA's weren't bad enough here is another form of scum. I cannot understand how an HOA foreclosure can be carried through to eviction with the first lien unsatisfied.
                        This is because, in most States, HOAs have super-priority lien status. In that case, they can foreclose upon their lien. What happens is that a (hopefully) savvy investor may buy the foreclosed lien, but they don't have to pay the first (or any other) mortgage on the home. The new owner is not liable to pay. These "investors" typically rent the home and hope to make some money before the home is foreclosed. Other more savvy investors try to get a carve-out by doing a short sale and having the lender pay them something. Still, others hope that the foreclosing bank pays them something. It's a very risky business.

                        In the end, the HOA needs the money. Some HOAs are devastated by abandoned homes and the lack of assessments being paid. The HOAs are crippled and some may even need to redistribute the lost assessments, causing every unit's assessment/dues to go up. That may then cause a more crippling affect with other unit owners not being able to afford the assessments as they increase.

                        You have to think of the HOA assessments and dues as a "tax". In my HOA, most of our dues/assessments are actually levied as a non-ad valorem tax, so we actually pay it through our County and in our taxes. Other HOAs are not so lucky and must actually bill for assessments and their only recourse, rather than selling tax certificates, they exercise their lien rights.

                        Tax certificates behave almost no differently than this foreclosure of HOA assessments. It gets the taxes paid, and the tax certificate holder can foreclose or evict (when their certificate matures).

                        I don't know how that makes an HOA "scum" for collecting?

                        Originally posted by SweetGeorgia View Post
                        I hate HOAs and will never again live in an HOA community. When I read the story above, the first thing I thought was that someone needs to take a reeeaally close look at the buyers. Is it only the houses free of mortgages that get foreclosed by HOAs? Someone is making off like a bandit; I wouldn't be surprised if the new owners are HOA officers.
                        It is a complete myth that homes free and clear of mortgages are foreclosed by an HOA. In fact, most properties that are free and clear of mortgages have absolutely NO issues. They are so rare, that unicorns themselves look at them in wonder.

                        No one makes off like a bandit. So-called investors that buy these at foreclosure need to be really savvy and understand what they are doing. Typical untalented investors lose big time on these, thinking they own the home "free and clear" and they don't. It is foreclosed subject to the other liens.

                        The HOAs are foreclosing to recover operating funds that manage things like (at least in my community) everything from extra police presence ($5M a year to the Sheriff and worth EVERY PENNY) to maintaining common services such as 2 large pool facilities and 3 gigantic parks. (Although 99% of our HOA dues are taxed and included in our property taxes. We do pay a very small portion outside "taxes". Yes, these are HOA assessments but this is a special type of HOA known as a CDD.)
                        Last edited by justbroke; 02-11-2014, 10:38 AM.
                        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here is a quote for the link I posted. I was referring to DTND as scum and some HOA's.


                          "Meanwhile, also on Tuesday, former DTND tenant Lisa Ybarra was packing her family's belongings in anticipation of trying to find another place to live.

                          The family moved into a house at 7731 Branston in April 2011, the same month DTND bought the house at the foreclosure auction for $1,248 — a dollar over the opening bid, according to foreclosure listing service RexReport.com.

                          Ybarra, 39, and her husband Jack, 38, rented the house from DTND, paying $1,000 per month through last month. DTND, though, lost the property in foreclosure in August to JPMorgan Chase.

                          The Ybarras were served with eviction papers Sept. 13."

                          IMO, HOA's have become a business who many think are too big to fail much like our banks. Many HOA's, as the one I am in, brought in an outside management company who now are attempting to run the place for a profit. They are failing to do so and now are cannot justify their own salaries thereby resulting in the unfounded attacks on homeowners.

                          This link speaks to other scum that have found another ways to manipulate the law and do so in a very unethical manner. These are vulture businesses that feed off the injured and dying. They misrepresent their wares causing hardships on the unsuspecting when the truth surfaces. That fits the definition of "scum" in by book.

                          Why should an HOA get preferential treatment over any other business? If they fail then they fail just like any other business.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nioka View Post
                            Here is a quote for the link I posted. I was referring to DTND as scum and some HOA's.
                            That's not being scum. They are purchasing an HOA foreclosure. In reality, this is no different than purchasing a tax certificate. The same principles apply, however, tax certificates are a much safer investment vehicle than purchasing HOA foreclosures.

                            Here are some interesting facts and other information;
                            • The entire thing that the people renting were evicted after living there 2 years is no different than anyone living in a property owned by someone else. If it is purchased, they are typically protected based on an unexpired lease. If you are on a month-to-month lease, you have no protection as the lease can usually be terminated with 30 day's notice by either party. An eviction would happen in any foreclosure, so there is nothing special about this particular eviction. (The eviction is actually the work of the foreclosing bank. The foreclosing bank purchased the home at foreclosure using their "credit". The bank could have honored the lease or asked them to sign a new lease. Apparently the bank was not interested, just as if "I" purchased the home, I would not be interested in these renters staying. It sounds harsh, but that's the reality of leasing a mortgaged home; it could be sold.)
                            • There is no manipulation of the law no matter how one spins any singular case, including the one you used as an example. They would be in no different position had the original owners rented and failed to pay their mortgage. So how does that make an investor, who keeps the payments on the HOA dues, paid the back dues (in a foreclosure action), and maintains the property, some sort of scum? I don't see any such signs. This would be the same if I purchased a tax certificate and foreclosed upon a tax certificate because the owner's did not pay their property taxes. I could then evict them, rent it out, and wait for the first mortgage to foreclose. I can collect rent. I am not liable for paying that mortgage as it is not in my name.
                            • Please trust me, I loathe aggressive HOAs, but I understand that the community has responsibilities and people who purchased in an HOA did so subject to the CC&Rs for that HOA. That could include fines for not maintaining your property, assessments, and even dues to keep up "common" areas, provide additional security or police protection, parks, swimming pools, and other community items. Those items are not free. The HOA's only recourse, just like your bank, is foreclosure.
                            • HOAs do not have preferential treatment at all. They are quite regulated in almost every State that I know of. They are doing nothing more than exercising their lien rights. Lien rights are different than "any other business"; a mortgage holder would be comparable. Mortgage holders exercise the same rights, albeit slower (because large banks have more money?). The issue has nothing to do with failure at all. An association can still fail and even go bankrupt. Nothing stops that from happening at all when an HOA is poorly run or the conditions in the HOA cause many homes/condos to go unsold are become abandoned (or maybe even catastrophic loss).


                            Everyone I know that calls a tax certificate purchaser, or even HOA foreclosure purchaser scum, have had not so pleasant issues with an HOA. I have had issues with my HOA but I understand the purpose of an HOA. I do not believe they are scum; not even the management company. I understand foreclosure very well, I also understand tax certificates and even purchasing encumbered property at a foreclosure auction.

                            Foreclosure is a tool to collect money owed. It's that simple. That a person has the money and capability to meet the shortfall of either a community (through purchasing an encumbered home at an HOA foreclosure auction) or a city/county/state (through purchasing a tax certificate so that the city/county/state can still have police, fire and teachers paid), I do not see any issue at all.
                            Last edited by justbroke; 02-11-2014, 01:38 PM.
                            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              On another note, and same topic, the PooPrints concept is amazing! I wish that I thought of it. I am sure that errant pet owners, are not.
                              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                              Comment

                              Unconfigured Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X