341 and we get this so-called "diligent" trustee

[despritfreya]

Hi Des: So, I think you are right when you said you these short sales and carve-outs may be hinged as to what the petitioner lists on their SOI.

Very interesting. We should keep an eye on this issue. Maybe all debtors should say "stay and pay" if they are still in the home. Of course, I go back to my initial thoughts. I do not oppose a Trustee selling an asset that my client has walked away from. Let him make a few bucks if he can. What I do oppose is the unwarranted demand that a debtor assist in the transaction and the invasion of privacy that is happening in OP’s situation. I also disagree with an unreasonable delay in closing the case.

Des.

[AngelinaCat]

I have a little barf-o-matic kitty and one even better than that who sometimes leaves little dark brown presents in the front room.

Barf-o-matic? Yeah, that describes my little girl. In spite of some of the not so pleasant aspects, you gotta love 'em. They are such good company.

[ValleYum]

I have to wonder if the way to stop this crap is to indicate that your intention is to "retain". Remember, a Statement of Intention is exactly that - what you intend to do. What you intend and what you actually do (walk away at some point) are two different things. Maybe a Trustee will leave the underwater property alone if the debtor "intends" to keep it.

In both cases that have been reported on this board the intention was to surrender. Freeatlast was out of the home. In OP’s case, at the 341 his attny said the debtors were not going to try to keep the home.

Des.

Hi Des:

After I read this reply, I got curious as to what *exactly* was said by the Trustee in my case (here in Western Washington also - but in a different area of the state from Freeatlast and R2BK) and what we had indicated on our SOI.

This is a redacted copy of our actual SOI:


I found my post regarding my 341. It was easy enough to find as I remembered saying I had some wine with lunch after our 341. Apparently, I am the only person who talks about Reisling here on BKForum.

Here is what I said about the Short Sale that the Trustee mentioned at my 341:

What we were going to do regarding home?? We said we're midst of attempting to get a modification from Chase - trustee said that if this was not going well during the next 60 days that I could contact my attorney and that they would arrange a short sale contract for us so that our credit 'wouldn't be dinged twice'.

We were NOT asked if we were current on the house payments - we aren't - we missed 3 payments so Chase would offer a modification and as of today are 4 behind).

<snipped>

Trustee then said "I am going to declare this a No-Asset case. Remember to get in touch with your attorney so he can get with me (in the next 60 days) if you want us to short sale your home. You are free to go".

<snipped>

The short sale thing was interesting - first time I have heard that mentioned when reading on here about 341 meetings.

It was fully disclosed that we were 3 months behind (at the time of filing) on our mortgage on our petition in several places including the mention of arrears on on the SOI itself. We also had submitted a CMA that showed us almost 100k underwater.

Here is the thread if you want to read it in context: https://www.bkforum.com/showthread.p...-11-Western-WA

So, I think you are right when you said you these short sales and carve-outs may be hinged as to what the petitioner lists on their SOI.

Just wanted to throw that out there for everyone's benefit and let you know that you are right as usual, Des!! Thanks for all you do for everyone here in giving us your time and your valuable opinion.

[Resigned2BK]

Perhaps your pet could 'conveniently' throw up in some prominent place, like the bed, which my little avatar did today.... ??

I have a little barf-o-matic kitty and one even better than that who sometimes leaves little dark brown presents in the front room.

[Slingerland]

Here's the ultimate: http://www.deq.state.ok.us/lpdnew/MethLabs/meth.htm

Print it out and hang it on the fridge.

[AngelinaCat]

Perhaps your pet could 'conveniently' throw up in some prominent place, like the bed, which my little avatar did today.... ??

[Resigned2BK]

We had our first looker last night. A Russian guy who we suspect is probably looking at the flip potential. Anyway, his agent left her card like agents always do and my girls were like, "Her hair is so pretty!" That got me thinking, hmmm, I could make a banner saying "Thanks for visiting" and push pin all the cards we get all around and over it on a prominent wall someplace like maybe the foyer. The cumulative effects of dozens of agents would, I should think, have an impact of "Damn, there must be something very wrong with this place." I don't know...

We're trying subtle resistance techniques. Neither the trustee nor his agent can force us to have our place spotless nor can they force us to leave the house when people come to view it. So what we did last night was just skulked around while a pizza was cooking while this guy looked. He was here 3 minutes tops. Hee hee.

[ValleYum]

It was EMPTY already though - and part of the deal with the buyers will be your moving date, right?

No sense borrowing trouble, sweets. <-- My mamaw always said that. Hopefully no one will want to buy it. I think you need to fry some fish. And make some yummy baked garlic cloves. MMMmmm they say there is nothing like the aromas of home cooking to sell your home . <snort> Do you like a nice curry on a rainy blustery day like today?

Did you know that soap scum is the new granite alternative? They say with enough layers it will be even stronger than granite!

Oh and your SS will have to be approved by both your first and the HELOC right ? Are they both with BOA? That may slow things down...


Just thought of another thing: You need to do some SUBLIMINAL decorating at your house!!

We did this at apartments I leased (but backwards of my suggestions here! LOL).

• Your bathroom needs some new decor - a drain snake & plunger sitting by the potty and a JUMBO size jug of Drano sitting on the counter.
• And print out the attached info about Attic Squirrel Traps and hang it with a magnet on the fridge. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...22-210959823-2
• A couple of bowls or trash cans with water in them randomly placed in rooms would be a fun subliminal reminder of a leaky roof.

If you are asked - I mean you were just trying to get things ready for the sale.... right?

[Resigned2BK]

That link kind of terrifies me. 75 days from the day of offer to closing for the person who started that thread. WTF. I also loved how she said it wasn't firesale priced when a third of the 2009 price was knocked off to make a sale in 2011. In the Seattle area, 2009 prices weren't tremendously higher than 2011 prices. Or at least they weren't in how our place was appraised over those years by the county.

[Resigned2BK]

LOL, thanks Valleyum.

[ValleYum]

I found a great forum where a Realtor who is also an attorney talks about this situation from a different aspect. The thread starts off with a woman trying to buy a home that is for short-sale due to the BK trustee and she was wondering about a disclosed but unexplained ~$15k fee she has to pay to buy the house. The whole thread is interesting and worth a read.

http://forums.redfin.com/t5/Seattle/Chapter-7-bankruptcy-and-Short-Sales-Fee-s-that-only-show-up-at/td-p/217776

Message #15 by MattVW explains this issue really well.

Re: Chapter 7 bankruptcy and Short Sales... Fee's that only show up at closing.
Options

07-08-2011 07:08 AM

It is very common on a bankruptcy sale for the trustee to put a 5% + 3,500 fee on the sale of the property. This is on top of the purchase price and must be paid by the buyer. In a very rare circumstance, the short sale lien holder might pay the fee, but rarely.

The trustee fee is paid to the trustee (not the listing agent) and it used to provide the bankrtupcy estate more flexibility dealing with the unsecured creditors. Trustees use this strategy to generate more funds to work with when a bankruptcy estate doesn't have any valuable assests. It provides an option for more funds if they can find a buyer willing to buy the house and pay the fee.

It sounds like it was disclosed up front as well and should have been attached as part of the bankruptcy purchase and sale agreement.

I know it isn't much comfort, R2BK, but I posted it in case it has some good ammo for you down the road.

Sometimes, knowledge is power. Gah, I sound like a Saturday morning cartoon commercial from back in the day.



LOL

I hope your day is better today, R2BK.

[jst4f]

If you want to take action now you could file an anonymous concern to the IRS that the trustee (you will have to use his name) is not filing taxes on these type of sales (which you believe have been ongoing for some time) since he can not credit the capital loss of the house against the earnings from the sale. IMHO. It is a fact that the TT has to file state and federal taxes on a BK estate that liquidates any assets. Let the IRS and TT work out the details. ;-)

[despritfreya]

I'd like to offer a bit of a positive spin. . .
1. Just because the TT listed it doesn't mean there will be an offer and if there is an offer, it doesn't mean BofA will actually accept it.
2. Even if they accept an offer, they will probably be very slow in doing so.
3. You should have at least 6 months (probably more) of no mortgage/rent so you should be able to save quite a bit of money. . .
4 (sic.). If a sale actually takes place (big if IMHO) it may end up better for you in the long run if you want to purchase another house. Without a foreclosure, you'd be eligible for an FHA mortgage just 2 years after discharge while others are well past 2 years post discharge (myself included) and are still waiting for foreclosure to start. Those of us in that situation will actually end up waiting 5+ years after discharge to be eligible for a new mortgage.
I know the few good things don't outweigh the anger and frustration you're feeling right now, but things will get better.

"freeatlast09" has hit the ball out of the park with this one. Always, and I mean ALWAYS find the silver lining.

Des.

[Resigned2BK]

I started having a lousy day as I saw that stupid For Sale sign through the front door window when I walked down the stairs. We don't have the income to rent a place right now, or at least not one that satisfies things like having a garage to house storage and tools sort of thing. I got to interview for a job that I'd be perfect for late last month, 1st week of March I get an email saying they want to check my references yet the person in charge of hiring will be out a week on vacation and I've still yet to hear anything from any of my references. I have a couple from my last job who are really good at telling me when they've been contacted and promised to contact me after I gave them the heads up this month. So, we're poor, we could be able to afford stuff if I can just secure a job, but for whatever reason I'm either just not selected (maybe credit hx is an issue even though background check was the only thing they seemed to care about on the app) or I have to wait a really really long time for anything positive to happen. I try to keep upbeat most of the time as a rule, it's just all bringing me down lately, especially having a sign out there like a neon FAILURE reminder.

[freeatlast09]

Our place was listed last Friday and a guy came out and installed the sign yesterday afternoon. Initial asking is about $30K below the value of the combined 1st and HELOC debts, but about $20K above the 1st alone if the HELOC is stripped. The trustee said he was taking the HELOC value into consideration. We have the email proof of that.

First off- this whole situation really sucks. I'm sorry you're going through it.

I'd like to offer a bit of a positive spin for you since you are clearly having a lousy day.
1. Just because the TT listed it doesn't mean there will be an offer and if there is an offer, it doesn't mean BofA will actually accept it.
2. Even if they accept an offer, they will probably be very slow in doing so.
3. You should have at least 6 months (probably more) of no mortgage/rent so you should be able to save quite a bit of money.
4. If there isn't an offer within 6 months, follow the advice Des posted - file a Motion to Abandon so a judge can see what the TT is up to.
4. If a sale actually takes place (big if IMHO) it may end up better for you in the long run if you want to purchase another house. Without a foreclosure, you'd be eligible for an FHA mortgage just 2 years after discharge while others are well past 2 years post discharge (myself included) and are still waiting for foreclosure to start. Those of us in that situation will actually end up waiting 5+ years after discharge to be eligible for a new mortgage.

I know the few good things don't outweigh the anger and frustration you're feeling right now, but things will get better.