Possible AP - or are they just trying to scare us into paying?

[justbroke]

I was wondering... what if you file BK pro se? The cost to defend against an AP would be zero, right? I mean all you would need is some form and maybe a filing fee of some kind, right?

As a debtor who filed an complaint under the Adversary Proceeding (AP) pro se, I can tell you that the cost is not $0. You have to issue summons and serve papers here and there. That cost does go up... especially when mailing (or over-nighting) documents that are in the 10s of pages.

Additionally, attending hearings does cost you time and time could literally mean money. Court is held during business hours, so attending would mean that a person on hourly wages could lose out on pay -- real money. Even a salaried person may need to use vacation time which is real money as well. Unless you're going to research at your local law library or you hang out at the U.S. Federal Courthouse (for free PACER access), you will accrue lots of PACER fees. (Been there, done that.)

If you need to call expert witnesses, which is a reality of a lawsuit, you could have costs for that as well.

However, the costs are lower if you do this pro se. I estimate that a pro se adversary proceeding that ends up getting dismissed or settled at or by the time of the first scheduling conference, is about $200 out of pocket. That's just my opinion.

[GoingDown]

Okay, I didn't see the specific use in the original post, looks like it was to repair termite damage and water damage (assuming that is true), then the debtor has the stronger case. HOWEVER, the decision to defend needs to balanced by the practicality and cost of defending. If it would cost you $2,500 to defend and the creditor would accept $1,500 to settle, what would you do.

I think this is a good case to fight.

I was wondering... what if you file BK pro se? The cost to defend against an AP would be zero, right? I mean all you would need is some form and maybe a filing fee of some kind, right?

I'm glad it worked out for the OP.

Personally, if I ever filed BK, I would defend against any and all AP's. I would never settle any of them. Just take my chances that they would lose.

Of course, at this point, all of my credit card charges ended in the year 2005 and early 2006. So, I think an AP would be very unlikely in my case.

Think about that... I haven't used a credit card or any form of credit since early 2006. It is amazing what you can get by without.

[Jf24]

Question on this subject. What are the normal limits on cc charges before filing? Filing in the next few weeks. Have used my card up untill a few weeks ago but only to pay oil bill, AT&T wireless bill and gas for the car and some groceries. The biggest charge was around $500 for the oil bill.

Back in August my desktop blew due to lightning storm and bought a dell laptop for around $800. How will this be handled? Other than these charges there has been no other use of the cards.

[tobee43]

Yes. PLUS...our lawyer is filing a counterclaim based on the new federal truth in lending laws...anyone have experience with that?

yes, we did and but only got atty fees and all court costs.

and congrats!!!!! glad that's off your plate!

[chicagoannie]

Biz - glad to hear it!

[debee]

Congrats on the win! It makes me happy to see someone stand up for right.

Just curious, how much did your attorney charge you for the extras related to the AP?

[AbbeyA]

Congratulations to you, great news!

[HHM]

Good to hear, sounds like creditor counsel is just getting lazy

[losingmybiz]

So the AP was dropped. We paid them nothing After the pretrial meeting, I guess they knew they would not win.

Done and done.

[losingmybiz]

if the debtor wins...doesn't the creditor have to pay the costs????

Yes. PLUS...our lawyer is filing a counterclaim based on the new federal truth in lending laws...anyone have experience with that?

[losingmybiz]

Originally they were looking for the $5500 and $4900.....and willing to settle for $3500. Well now they are coming after the total credit card balance - more than the original 5500 and 4900.

[losingmybiz]

In the complaint they mention specific charges and that one of the charges was 240 days prior and another was 191 days prior to filing. They are really assuming a lot. There is absolutely nothing within the 90 days.

This is a no asset case.

We took pictures of the hole in our celing under the bathroom and pictures of the hole in our house when they originally found the termites. We have receipts too. What more proof would they need?

We also were expecting a 12k tax return, and were planning to use it to pay down my husband's cc's so he would not have to file. Of course, sh*t happens and things did not work out that way. We got the 12k tax return, but had to use it to pay business related taxes.

[tobee43]

Okay, I didn't see the specific use in the original post, looks like it was to repair termite damage and water damage (assuming that is true), then the debtor has the stronger case. HOWEVER, the decision to defend needs to balanced by the practicality and cost of defending. If it would cost you $2,500 to defend and the creditor would accept $1,500 to settle, what would you do.

I think this is a good case to fight.

if the debtor wins...doesn't the creditor have to pay the costs????

[HHM]

Okay, I didn't see the specific use in the original post, looks like it was to repair termite damage and water damage (assuming that is true), then the debtor has the stronger case. HOWEVER, the decision to defend needs to balanced by the practicality and cost of defending. If it would cost you $2,500 to defend and the creditor would accept $1,500 to settle, what would you do.

I think this is a good case to fight.

[tobee43]

A good BK attorney does not want a reputation that he will settle borderline frivolous AP's otherwise he invites future ones to be filed. I will admit our office has setltled one but that is because the client took a cash advance to pay a non dischargeable debt ( taxes-he actually used of those checks the credit card issues and wrote it write to the IRS!) but for all other matters we file a motion to dismiss and ask for attorney's fees. AP's are becoming more prevalent because weak attorneys are caving, we have had 3 in our office in the last year and had all 3 dismissed.

I hate to see you settle that is unless you actually violated the BK code.

Good luck

i so agree....but i do think it was the atty's responsibility to had advised you if there was in fact, a questionable situation, that you should have allowed "time" to pass prior to your filing to protect your position. i also agree with the fact that we will begin to see more ap hearings pop up...just because atty's need business.

also the few i have known also lost and the debtor won and did not have to pay. that is why it is quite interesting that it is usually advised to attempt a settlement as opposed to going to court....keeping in mind that you may lose and have to pay the debt in full.