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    #16
    Originally posted by justbroke View Post
    I think it's reserved by the Trustee so that they can issue the debtor a refund check. They make the debtor a creditor, for some reason. My guess is that "NDC_DFLT" just means it's a National Data Center Default creditor. That way, the Trustee doesn't have to put you in as a creditor.

    If you are entitled to a refund of payments, due to an overpayment, this is likely where the Trustee would account for and make that payment.
    Thank you!

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      #17
      Maybe the ch13 is hitting the unsecured max due to stripping off real estate liens. Other than that, I don't see how home equity prevents a cramdown.

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        #18
        Originally posted by flashoflight View Post
        Maybe the ch13 is hitting the unsecured max due to stripping off real estate liens. Other than that, I don't see how home equity prevents a cramdown.
        Yeah, the unsecured max and the secured max combined could be issues. I was about $30K away on the unsecured max.

        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

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          #19
          Originally posted by justbroke View Post
          Yeah, the unsecured max and the secured max combined could be issues. I was about $30K away on the unsecured max.
          What does it mean?

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            #20
            Witchywitch It's quicker to explain with an example. Let's assume the unsecured max for ch13 is $419k.

            You have a house worth $300k. Your first mortgage has $310k remaining. Your second has $218k remaining. You have $200k in unsecured credit card debt. If you strip the second, the debt doesn't disappear. That $218k goes from secured to unsecured since it is no longer secured by the house. After stripping the 2nd, your unsecured is now $418k. Now you can't cramdown the car and convert the upside down portion from secured to unsecured because you are nearly maxed out the $419k limit. Once you are over the unsecured or secured max, you cannot file chapter 13. Your remaining options would be the very expensive ch11 or ch7.

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              #21
              flashoflight, exactly!
              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

              Comment


                #22
                For us, we have 2 cars. I was able to cram down 1 car and not the other car. My house is over 400k and nothing about equity ever came into question for cram down. The rules as they were described to me on whether I could cramdown my car loans was a question on when I took the loan out and how long I had had the loan. I had refinanced one of my cars in the last 2 years so I was unable to cram that one down due to the origination date of the loan ...even though I had actually had the car and other loans on it for like 5 years. I can't remember what the timeframe was off the top of my head but it was like 900 days or something I think?

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by NoMoney30 View Post
                  I can't remember what the timeframe was off the top of my head but it was like 900 days or something I think?
                  You are almost right on the money! (You would have won on The Price is Right!) Cram down is restricted for a "purchase money" loan within 910 days of filing. That term "purchase money" is interesting, because if you refinance the loan after buying the vehicle, it's no longer "purchase money" and is no longer subjected to the "anti cramdown" provision in the bankruptcy code!

                  I used this fact to cramdown a car in my Chapter 13. The creditor's attorney was adamant that my loan was a 910-day loan. I kept telling them that it's a refinance. We were even in court and I brought the security agreement and pointed to the line that said "refinance of..." Maybe they didn't know, but I had researched it thoroughly. The hearing was continued and they finally backed down. In fact, I think I had put something like the value of $9,000 for cramdown, and they agreed to $8,250!

                  (The other reason someone may not be able to cramdown does have to do with the so-called 109(e) provisions of the bankruptcy code. It has to do with "who may be a debtor" in a Chapter 13. For Chapter 13s, there are limits as to how much debt you can have broken down by secured and unsecured debt, plus a cap.)
                  Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                  Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                  Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                  I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

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