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Is there a standard to how/how often your income is monitored throughout the plan?

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  • #16
    Clarifying that I am in a DMI (less than 100%) plan. I think my I am lucky enough to have a trustee who is not looking to take every available dollar post-confirmation.
    Filed Ch 13 Fall 2013, 60 month plan, currently in discharge process! (last payment disbursed to creditors)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by switch625 View Post
      My trustee never raised my plan payment during my 13.
      I was not required to turn over tax refunds to the trustee
      I was not required to provide annual tax returns or income/expense statements.
      Same. I think we’re in the same district. Trustee is very chill.

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      • #18
        Thank you all so very much for your help/insights/sharing. So glad this place is here!
        I have since found out (on my own - still no answers from atty) that my new trustee requires of all 13 folks, copies both state and federal tax returns be remitted to their office within 10 days of filing, and all refunds (unless otherwise noted on plan docs) must be remitted within 7 days of receipt.

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        • #19
          Our 24th payment of our five year plan is processing now. What we have found since starting this journey is, like many others have stated, each trustee and area may operate a little differently. When we received our first tax refund at the end of year one we called our trustee (actually the admin person that is assigned to our case with him) and asked what we needed to do. She looked at the paperwork and said that there was nothing n the confirmation to send in tax returns or refunds so don't worry about it. She had also told us that all they do to verify you are making your plan payments is that they look at the end of the year to verify you paid what you should have for the year. It seems very laid back so far. The only thing I have found in researching my trustee is that he makes sure at the end of the plan you made all your external payments per the plan (mortgage). There was a woman who had him as a trustee and on her final audit he found she was behind on her mortgage and asked the court to dismiss the case rather than order a discharge because she failed to meet the plan requirements and the court agreed. sucked for her to pay for five years and then not get a discharge. Needless to say I am making all my mortgage payments on time.

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          • #20
            Oh my gosh, user fiveyear, on that person's mortgage story! I've been one day late once (not considered late until the 15th of month, paid on the 15th).
            I've since gotten even more information from the trustee's website and speaking with someone there. If you make more than $1500 than the prior year, it is automatically taken as excess and your payment adjusted accordingly. Also, even if your plan documents state that your tax refunds are NOT to be remitted, you still have to hold onto them until you receive a letter from the trustee's office stating they have re-analyzed your case and do not have to remit. I questioned that, since my docs say they do NOT have to be remitted, and was told that could change at any time at their discretion.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by andersonj View Post
              I questioned that, since my docs say they do NOT have to be remitted, and was told that could change at any time at their discretion.
              That's interesting, because the order confirming the plan is the official court order. The only thing that can change your payment and what you need to surrender, is a plan modification.

              Sounds like you have a tough(er) Trustee that monitors cases closely and wants go obtain more money. In a confirmed case where the plan actually includes language that any tax refund would not need to be surrendered, the Trustee should not be able to tell you to "hold onto it" and they'll decide later if they want it, or anything else. The Trustee's recourse is through a motion to modify a confirmed plan.

              This has been the case in every single Chapter 13 that I have seen. When there is no language to surrender tax refunds, then those refunds are not part of the DMI to be surrendered.

              That's just too strange and arbitrary for me. How would anyone ever make it out from a Chapter 13 if the Trustee could change the language and terms of a Confirmed Chapter 13 Plan without notice and hearing? I wonder if despritfreya has ever run into something like that.
              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

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              • #22
                Maybe that's what the trustee does? Sees the #s and then files whatever motions/paperwork is required to change it? I didn't ask particulars as to how it would happen, just was told that it could. Maybe the "any time" that they told me meant after the filing/approval of new docs? Since I'm not that far into the plan, I don't have much set aside for car repairs since I started with zero savings. My tax return, if I get the "usual" amount (but who knows - didn't a lot of tax laws change?) was set in my mind to go to new tires on my car. When I bring it in for oil change, the dealership keeps warning me about the tires, but I have to politely explain that I don't have the money for them and that I need to make it to tax time. I am hoping the trustee "review" process is quick!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by andersonj View Post
                  Maybe that's what the trustee does? Sees the #s and then files whatever motions/paperwork is required to change it?
                  Exactly. They have to"see" the numbers, calculate, make a determination, and then file a Motion for Modification. But that's never for a motion to turnover a tax refund that the Chapter 13 debtor already has in their hands unless that is already in the Order Confirming Chapter 13 Plan.

                  Only about 10% of Chapter 13 cases ever have a Trustee-initiated Motion to Modify Confirmed Plan. That should be an indicator. In one survey, performed years ago, Chapter 13s Trustees stated that they usually don't bother most debtors so long as they are making payments and staying in plan.

                  I was making a post because there's a big difference between the Trustee telling that they can do any thing at any time without a court order. Their job is to monitor the plan and make sure the debtor stays in plan. If they believe that you're making more money than your were confirmed with, they may file a motion to ask the court to modify the plan. The consensus is that the Trustees typically don't bother people who have an increase in income unless it's over 10% in a year (year over year). If you received 10% a year increase for 3-4 years, the Trustee "could" get interested, but still... they must file a Motion to Modify the plan and it's not retroactive.

                  I would ask my attorney very specfically if I have to surrender my tax return this year (2018 return).
                  Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                  Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                  Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                  I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    justbroke

                    While each trustee handles the turnover of post petition tax refunds differently, you are correct that if the requirement is not someplace in that Order Confirming the only way the Trustee gets the refunds (or changes the Plan payment) is to seek a Plan modification under 11 USC 1329 - something, as you pointed out, rarely happens.

                    Without knowing the specific procedure in OP’s district, my guess is that if a debtor had received refunds in the past which were over a certain level, turnover in the future is required and that requirement will be placed in the Confirmation Order.

                    andersonj

                    If you are willing please post a link to your Trustee’s website.

                    Des.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I've held off answering because I wanted to see how this trustee change played out. I don't want to link to the trustee's website - call me paranoid but I really want to stay off of their radar.

                      Here is my rant on the change of trustee: All I have received was a letter from the old trustee back in late Nov/early December stating that he would no longer be the trustee and it listed the new trustee's name, address and phone number. The only requirement, per the old trustee in a post-confirmation letter, was to make payments on time, do not incur any debt, not to sell anything of value, and to call with any questions. The old trustee did not have a website. There has been no notice or contact at all from the new trustee or from my attorney. Now I think the average person would be like, "Ok, good to know, I mustn't have to do anything..."

                      BUT - I'm a worry wart, so I looked into this new trustee, found the website, and found her 5 page manifesto of requirements - such as remitting tax returns within 10 days of filing. She does not accept the online form of payment that I was set up for. Surely I am not the only one using this payment method! I am going to be ok because I did my research, but what about the others who did not?

                      One coworker knows of my bankruptcy, and she is a well-known person locally in her church and many activities (so people confide in her). She happens to know 2 people in 13's locally and mentioned what I've found out sine they are older (without mentioning my name) and they had no idea of all of thise. I guess one of them in fact did use the online payment method. The other one hadn't even received a trustee letter but when they called yesterday did in fact find out they have a new trustee. Yikes.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Chapter 13 Standing Trustees rarely change except retirement or early demise. I'm not even sure I've read about any Chapter 13 Standing Trustees being removed fro their position, so it is a rare occurrence that this happens. Because it is so rare, and the new Trustee is... new... there are bound to be problems with them getting established. One of the major areas where new Trustees seem to have issues is both in setting up their office and making arrangements with the various payment providers.

                        There are several payment acceptance providers from the Tennessee "lock box", TrustWin (which may be Sun Trust), Sun Trust, and more. Whether or not the new Trustee can get all the accounts in place is beyond the abilities of my crystal ball. Unfortunately the new Trustee and the Chapter 13 debtors will need to have patience with each other during the transition.
                        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Andersonj I sent you a pm, as I think we are in the same district going thru the same situation and I am a nervous mess. We are 19 months in and we were told make your payments and stay the course and we would be ok. My concern comes in at the fact I just got a new job and my income has increased some but now my healthcare is paid for by my employer. We can breathe a little easier but like most others we rely on our returns for things like repairs, emergency funds and this year was going to be tires for my car. I am super anxious and actually missed work today because I am so upset about this situation, it’s been a huge struggle for us but I finally felt like we were going to be ok then I got the letter from the trustee yesterday spelling out the tax return and wage review process.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by switch625 View Post
                            My trustee never raised my plan payment during my 13.
                            I was not required to turn over tax refunds to the trustee
                            I was not required to provide annual tax returns or income/expense statements.


                            same here. I switched jobs and made more money after the 2nd year. I called my attorney and the trustee to tell them. Attorney said I needed to do a new work sheet, but ended up playing phone tag. I just had to send a pay stub a few weeks later and didn't have any issues. Case was discharged in December and got my refund check a few weeks later.

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