Confirmation hearing results a secret???

[GoingUnderInNV]

Well, last time I posted here I was freaked out over an objection the Trustee made based on the form my attorney used in my filing. Well, I spoke to my attorney's paralegal gal a couple days before the Confirmation Hearing, and she said that not only was the objection taken care of, but the my plan was confirmed at the original amount suggested. Now, not wanting to look a gift horse in the mouth, she told me this two days before the confirmation hearing took place (so how did she know?), AND I have yet to see anything filed on either PACER or Epiq since the Trustee's object was filed.

Does it usually take a long time for the results of the Confirmation Hearing to be posted online? And shouldn't I see something posted if the Objection is--- resolved, er whatever?

[HHM]

If your attorney has worked out everything with the trustee and the trustee has no objections

here is what happens at a confirmation hearing...

-Court Clerk: "In the matter of the case of xxxyyyzzz."
-Trustee: "Trustee has reviewed the petition for bankruptcy and the chapter 13 plan and believes it to be in the best interests of the creditors, therefore, the trustee recommends confirmation."
-Judge: "Having received no other objections to confirmation, It is so ordered"
NEXT CASE...

Your attorney won't even be there.

Thus, when the paralegal tells you everything is fine, than it most likely is. The order of Plan confirmation will not issue until after the hearing, and will probably take up to 24 hours.

[Debtsarenogood]

That is not true about the attorney not even being there. A confirmation hearing is a court hearing in front of a judge. Your attorney that represents you needs to be in court in case there is problems with the case and it cannot be confirmed. There are many problems that can come up last minute such as missing documents the trustee needs, non-posted payment, last minute objection to confirmation. Your attorney's duty is to represent you in a confirmation hearing.

[HHM]

That is not true about the attorney not even being there. A confirmation hearing is a court hearing in front of a judge. Your attorney that represents you needs to be in court in case there is problems with the case and it cannot be confirmed. There are many problems that can come up last minute such as missing documents the trustee needs, non-posted payment, last minute objection to confirmation. Your attorney's duty is to represent you in a confirmation hearing.

That may be the "idealistic" way it is "supposed" to happen, but in reality...

For the attorney, there are few surprises. The attorney will know, well in advance of the confirmation hearing, whether there will be any problems with confirmation...issues with confirmation don't ever come up last minute, if anyone wants to contest confirmation, they have to file and objection. If there are going to be problems, the attorney will be there...(especially if it is a creditor objection to confirmation). However, your attorney will also know, ahead of time, if the trustee is going to recommend confirmation.

Trust me, if plan is going to be confirmed, your attorney will not be at the hearing.

From the attorney's perspective, this is how it works.

1. File Petition and plan.
2. Attend 341 meeting. At the 341 meeting, the attorney will learn what, if any issues, the trustee has the petition and plan
3. The trustee will file an objection, they always find something to object to, but it is usually minor.
4. The attorney fixes the problems, negotiates with the trustee, files the necessary paperwork to satisfy the trustees concerns.
5. If the trustee is satisfied...the case goes to confirmation.
6. The attorney, knowing the plan will be confirmed, won't show up to the hearing. Its a fairly accepted practice, actually.

[lrprn]

That may be the "idealistic" way it is "supposed" to happen, but in reality...

For the attorney, there are few surprises. ...

6. The attorney, knowing the plan will be confirmed, won't show up to the hearing. Its a fairly accepted practice, actually.

Agree with HHM. Our lawyer told us that our bk court tries to schedule the potential objection pre-confirmation cases together on a specific day of the week so that the lawyers know if they have a client who has a trustee or creditor objection filed, the hearing is likely to be on that day and they will need to be there in court. Otherwise if it's a no-contest case and the trustee and the lawyer have already conferred and know the case will be confirmed, the lawyer might be there in person or might not.

[Debtsarenogood]

I completely disagree with you. An attorney should appear at all court hearings on behalf of their client. Surprises come up all the time at confirmation hearings. Trustees often find things last minute and will bring them up at the confirmation. In addition to ensure a confirmation does not get denied an attorney should attend the court hearing just to make sure that it gets confirmed in court. I am not sure what kind of lawyers you would want to represent you, but most clients would want their lawyer that they pay money to to make an appearance to make sure that everything goes ok in court and the case gets confirmed. If there happens to be a problem at confirmation, and the attorney is there the attorney can obtain a continuance to rectify the problem. If there is a problem with confirmation and no attorney is there the case can get confirmation denied. In addition the attorney can also be subject to sanctions for not representing his or her client.


For you to say very few surprises come up at confirmation I find very interesting. How many chapter 13's have you filed for people. Can you personally attest based on your own experience that few surprises come up at confirmation or is this from your own personal experience of just filing one case for yourself?

Also I have no ideal where you get off that trustees dont show up at the confirmation hearing. In my district the trustee has to be at the confirmation hearing. The Chapter 13 trustee sits in at the chapter 13 court call for every single matter. The judge before he confirms a case will usually defer to the trustee on open record if the plan can be recommended.

[lrprn]

I completely disagree with you. Certainly your privilege - it's a free country the last time I checked.

For you to say very few surprises come up at confirmation I find very interesting. How many chapter 13's have you filed for people. How many have you filed? Can you personally attest based on your own experience that few surprises come up at confirmation or is this from your own personal experience of just filing one case for yourself? And are you saying that your personal experience is much greater?

Also I have no ideal where you get off that trustees dont show up at the confirmation hearing. I reread each post carefully - I don't see where anyone here said that. We said the lawyer didn't show up when he/she heard from the trustee ahead of time and knew there would be no problem with confirmation.

In my district the trustee has to be at the confirmation hearing. The Chapter 13 trustee sits in at the chapter 13 court call for every single matter. The judge before he confirms a case will usually defer to the trustee on open record if the plan can be recommended.In our bk district too

Perhaps this is one of the many instances where practices between bk courts differ from district to district.

[HHM]

I completely disagree with you. An attorney should appear at all court hearings on behalf of their client. Surprises come up all the time at confirmation hearings. Trustees often find things last minute and will bring them up at the confirmation. In addition to ensure a confirmation does not get denied an attorney should attend the court hearing just to make sure that it gets confirmed in court. I am not sure what kind of lawyers you would want to represent you, but most clients would want their lawyer that they pay money to to make an appearance to make sure that everything goes ok in court and the case gets confirmed. If there happens to be a problem at confirmation, and the attorney is there the attorney can obtain a continuance to rectify the problem. If there is a problem with confirmation and no attorney is there the case can get confirmation denied. In addition the attorney can also be subject to sanctions for not representing his or her client.


For you to say very few surprises come up at confirmation I find very interesting. How many chapter 13's have you filed for people. Can you personally attest based on your own experience that few surprises come up at confirmation or is this from your own personal experience of just filing one case for yourself?

Also I have no ideal where you get off that trustees don't show up at the confirmation hearing. In my district the trustee has to be at the confirmation hearing. The Chapter 13 trustee sits in at the chapter 13 court call for every single matter. The judge before he confirms a case will usually defer to the trustee on open record if the plan can be recommended.

This is kinda of a pointless debate. Your saying how it "should" be, I am telling you how it "is". And yes, I know the trustee is at every hearing. I suppose I can ask you the same question...how many confirmations have you been too? Also, in the Notice of Chapter 13 Confirmation Hearing, it provides for a deadline for the filing of Objections (which also applies to the trustee) so in that respect, objections do not materialize last minute. If the objection is not filed on time and no extension to file has been granted (which would appear in PACER and the attorney would know about it), the creditor and trustee lose the right to object.

I suppose it may work differently where you are...but here, all cases that are going to be confirmed are scheduled for a specific time, and aside from the Trustee (and their staff), the court personnel, and the judge. No one is there, and the cases are read off in order and confirmed. After they are done with those, then all the contested confirmations are scheduled, and that is when the attorney's show-up. Again, the attorney will KNOW if a plan is going to be confirmed or not before it happens. If it is going to be confirmed, there is nothing for the attorney to do at the hearing.

I can see that from a debtor perspective...things may appear to happen last minute, especially in a chapter 7 where a creditor or trustee can object to discharge up to the day before the scheduled discarged. But in a chapter 13 (and chapter 7), there are rules and procedures that make everything predictable and in the run-of-the-mill chapter 13, there are really no surprises. Surprises are usually caused by the debtor when the debtor hasn't told their attorney everything.

[GoingUnderInNV]

Well, arguments aside, waht has me a bit baffled is that I haven't heard ANYTHING and haven't seen ANYHTING posted on PACER, and the Conf Hearing was 2 (two) calendar weeks ago. I should see SOMETHING, no??

[coma]

I would think you see something. I saw mine, and also got a copy of the plan and the order confirming the plan in the mail.

[HHM]

Well, arguments aside, waht has me a bit baffled is that I haven't heard ANYTHING and haven't seen ANYHTING posted on PACER, and the Conf Hearing was 2 (two) calendar weeks ago. I should see SOMETHING, no??

That is a little odd, but since one of those weeks was a holiday...I'd give it 'till the end of this week. If you don't see an "Order Confirming Chapter 13 Plan" in Pacer by Friday, I would call your lawyer first thing Monday morning.

[Debtsarenogood]

Originally Posted by Debtsarenogood
I completely disagree with you. Certainly your privilege - it's a free country the last time I checked. ACTUALLY ITS NOT A FREE COUNTRY.

For you to say very few surprises come up at confirmation I find very interesting. How many chapter 13's have you filed for people. How many have you filed?ABOUT 300 Can you personally attest based on your own experience that few surprises come up at confirmation or is this from your own personal experience of just filing one case for yourself? And are you saying that your personal experience is much greater? YES

Also I have no ideal where you get off that trustees dont show up at the confirmation hearing. I reread each post carefully - I don't see where anyone here said that. We said the lawyer didn't show up when he/she heard from the trustee ahead of time and knew there would be no problem with confirmation. YOU ARE RIGHT THAT IS MY MISTAKE

In my district the trustee has to be at the confirmation hearing. The Chapter 13 trustee sits in at the chapter 13 court call for every single matter. The judge before he confirms a case will usually defer to the trustee on open record if the plan can be recommended.In our bk district too NICE


Perhaps this is one of the many instances where practices between bk courts differ from district to district. PROBABLY

[Debtsarenogood]

This is kinda of a pointless debate. Your saying how it "should" be, I am telling you how it "is". ACTUALLY YOU ARE TELLIMG ME HOW IT IS IN YOUR DISTRICT And yes, I know the trustee is at every hearing. I suppose I can ask you the same question...how many confirmations have you been too? 300 Also, in the Notice of Chapter 13 Confirmation Hearing, it provides for a deadline for the filing of Objections (which also applies to the trustee) so in that respect, objections do not materialize last minute. TRUSTEES OFTEN TIMES DO NOT FILE OBJECTIONS WITH THE COURT, THEY INDICATE THEIR OBJECTIONS VERBALLY THROUGH A HEARING OFFICER AT THE 341 MEETING OR IN OPEN COURT, OR BY CALLING THE ATTORNEY, BUT SOMETIMES THEY JUST TELL YOU IN OPEN COURT AT THE CONFIRMATION HEARING If the objection is not filed on time and no extension to file has been granted (which would appear in PACER and the attorney would know about it), the creditor and trustee lose KKthe right to object. THE TRUSTEE DOES NOT NEED TO FILE AN OBJECTION HE OR SHE CAN JUST OBJECT AT THE CONFIRMATION HEARING BUT IF NO ATTORNEY IS THERE, THEN ATTORNEY WILL NOT KNOW OF OBJECTION.

I suppose it may work differently where you are...but here, all cases that are going to be confirmed are scheduled for a specific time, and aside from the Trustee (and their staff), the court personnel, and the judge. No one is there, and the cases are read off in order and confirmed. After they are done with those, then all the contested confirmations are scheduled, and that is when the attorney's show-up. Again, the attorney will KNOW if a plan is going to be confirmed or not before it happens. If it is going to be confirmed, there is nothing for the attorney to do at the hearing. LOOKS LIKE OUR DISTRICTS JUST WORK DIFFERENTLY

I can see that from a debtor perspective...things may appear to happen last minute, especially in a chapter 7 where a creditor or trustee can object to discharge up to the day before the scheduled discarged. But in a chapter 13 (and chapter 7), there are rules and procedures that make everything predictable and in the run-of-the-mill chapter 13, there are really no surprises. Surprises are usually caused by the debtor when the debtor hasn't told their attorney everything.

.....

[GoingUnderInNV]

Confirmed!! Whew!

Well, just got notification in the mail (still nothing on PACER!!) that my plan was approved by the judge!! *whew* OK, that's a load off! I'll be paying $400/month for the next 5 years (assuming every creditor files a claim), and I'm glad it's not much more! $400 is manageable right now, and I won't be eating Ramen for the next 5 years! Next big hurdle: Jan 22!

Gotta say, though: You guys have been a great support throughout this whole escapade, and I'm glad you're here to acts as a sounding board for folks like me!

[lrprn]

Well, just got notification in the mail (still nothing on PACER!!) that my plan was approved by the judge!! *whew* OK, that's a load off! I'll be paying $400/month for the next 5 years (assuming every creditor files a claim), and I'm glad it's not much more! $400 is manageable right now, and I won't be eating Ramen for the next 5 years! Next big hurdle: Jan 22!

Gotta say, though: You guys have been a great support throughout this whole escapade, and I'm glad you're here to acts as a sounding board for folks like me!

So glad your Ch 13 plan was confirmed, GUINV! What a wonderful Christmas present - a manageable plan payment! Hope the five years go quickly for you - congratulations!