Need Advice

[CityGirl]

I really appreciate everyone who continuously helps me and answers my questions. You have no idea how much this has helped me deal with the stress.
I have a few questions. I'm going to email my Attorney too, but I want to ask you guys first.

I have to file within the next month because I have a business credit card with Amex and it's supposed to be paid in full every month. I missed this month and it's due the 12th ( that's already extended ) and they haven't called yet but I know they will. $3560 is due this month and another 3500 next month. I bought frugal things with it ( went on vacation etc ) and honestly didn't think I'd have to do a BK until I really read a lot on this forum and decided I needed to do this. It's in my social security number and not tied to any business. My old employer's company name is on it but that doesn't really mean anything, does it?
I'm worry they might cry fraud but my attorney said no because it's a 13, and you're paying them back to the best of your ability.

Is that true?

I also, as you know, frequent the casino and make withdrawels from the ATM there of which I will stop doing now because I have to file so soon. I know a member here ( CATCHMEIFYOUCAN) had the same problem but when the trustee saw the withdrawels, he didn't say anything. I'm a bit worried about that. It has caused me to be overdrawn on numerous occasions. I have a very bad habit and I'm getting help for it right now.

What do ya'll think of this? Do you think I'll have a problem with fraud? I'm so nervous. Thank you all~~~

[Granny]

As always, from the for what it's worth dept, here's my experience with Am Ex.

Am Express has a program that you can set up for extended payments for purchases over 300.00. I set that up several years ago, but most of the time it was used only for travel. A few months before I filed, I bought necessities with Am Ex. I almost always spent over 300.00 on purpose so I could spread out the payments. We also used it for some business purchases too, i.e. diesel fuel for the big truck. I went to Wally World the day before I met with the attorney and spent about 500.00 buying groceries and some Christmas gifts for the kids, but no one item was over 100.00. My balance to them was over 7k when I filed.

I was a little worried about them with my case, but figured that if they objected, I would pay them through my plan and that would be that. I think they were the last claim to be filed, and that worried me too, but no objection was ever filed. They will not be getting anything from my plan, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

Hope it goes as well for you.

[CityGirl]

Ya, I asked them about the extended payment plan a month ago and they said I didn't qualify for it. I had to pay it in full.
Was yours the type you had to pay in full?

As always, from the for what it's worth dept, here's my experience with Am Ex.

Am Express has a program that you can set up for extended payments for purchases over 300.00. I set that up several years ago, but most of the time it was used only for travel. A few months before I filed, I bought necessities with Am Ex. I almost always spent over 300.00 on purpose so I could spread out the payments. We also used it for some business purchases too, i.e. diesel fuel for the big truck. I went to Wally World the day before I met with the attorney and spent about 500.00 buying groceries and some Christmas gifts for the kids, but no one item was over 100.00. My balance to them was over 7k when I filed.

I was a little worried about them with my case, but figured that if they objected, I would pay them through my plan and that would be that. I think they were the last claim to be filed, and that worried me too, but no objection was ever filed. They will not be getting anything from my plan, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

Hope it goes as well for you.

[CityGirl]

Irprn??? Are you there?

[lrprn]

Hubby had two AmEx cards (personal, not business) when we filed Ch 13. I was an authorized user on both cards. We made no payments to either card for five months by the time we filed. AmEx did file claims for both cards.

There is a sense that you are less likely to get a charge of filing "in bad faith" in Ch 13 because you are paying back at least a portion of what you owe. Your lawyer is most familiar with how your AmEx situation will be viewed by the Ch 13 trustee in your court.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

I really appreciate everyone who continuously helps me and answers my questions. You have no idea how much this has helped me deal with the stress.
I have a few questions. I'm going to email my Attorney too, but I want to ask you guys first.
I have to file within the next month because I have a business credit card with Amex and it's supposed to be paid in full every month. I missed this month and it's due the 12th ( that's already extended ) and they haven't called yet but I know they will. $3560 is due this month and another 3500 next month. I bought frugal things with it ( went on vacation etc ) and honestly didn't think I'd have to do a BK until I really read a lot on this forum and decided I needed to do this. It's in my social security number and not tied to any business. My old employer's company name is on it but that doesn't really mean anything, does it?
I'm worry they might cry fraud but my attorney said no because it's a 13, and you're paying them back to the best of your ability.
Is that true?
I also, as you know, frequent the casino and make withdrawels from the ATM there of which I will stop doing now because I have to file so soon. I know a member here ( CATCHMEIFYOUCAN) had the same problem but when the trustee saw the withdrawels, he didn't say anything. I'm a bit worried about that. It has caused me to be overdrawn on numerous occasions. I have a very bad habit and I'm getting help for it right now.

Catchmeifyoucan here! Hmmm, I honestly don't think anyone can be sure what action a creditor may take? I guess I got lucky, one never knows. I did file for Ch13 at first! So MAYBE the creditors knowing that I would be paying them back something rather than nothing, didn't pursue an objection. WHO KNOWS. My biggest cash withdrawal was in March-April. I got a new credit card from a Credit Union and transferred the whole amnt $10,000 to another Credit Unions cc (btw is considered a cash withdrawal) I wiped out the whole line by end of April. I ended up filing end of July (they say 60-90 days one should wait if cash advances etc). I'm assuming I was borderline with the timing. I stayed in Ch13 waiting to be confirmed, meanwhile paying the Trustee $250 a month. By the 3rd month I was able to convert my case to Ch7 - I can only assume that put more distance between the advances, but at the same time the creditors did have a shot at me again as I had another 341 meeting for the Ch7 conversion. Not a peep from the creditors.

What do ya'll think of this? Do you think I'll have a problem with fraud? I'm so nervous. Thank you all~~~

It's up to the creditors to prove fraud from what I hear. Do understand I was still paying the creditors the minimum balance up to the time I had to file. So it wasn't looking like I was avoiding not paying them and they did have the authority to take automatic monthly deductions for the unsecured loans and credit cards I had with them. I'd like to see them prove I was "tricking," them by paying in a timely manner.
BUT, when I was getting ready to file, I shut them down and "turned off," the automatic cycles for fear of the "cross collateral," horror stories, and of course had change my direct deposits to another bank. It all seemed to be times so perfectly I must say.

Again, I believe its just luck of the draw! I GUESS.

Wish you the Best, Catchmeifyoucan !

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Just a quick note, I once had AMX awhile back and had owed them like $2500 (early 90's) and filed Bk. Back them I guess you could consider them pretty agressive, rather whoever they sold my account to, was pretty "annoying," even after I was discharged from my 1st Bk I still continued to get offers of settling for less, which to me makes not sense to do. Why settle for less when you already got the whole debt wiped out?

Best to all, Catchmeifyoucan !

[Granny]

Was yours the type you had to pay in full?

Yes, it was the standard Gold card with sign & travel. I have been a member for 15 years, on time payments always.

I qualified for the Platinum card but never got it, I thought the price was too high and not enough benefits.

[CityGirl]

Just a quick note, I once had AMX awhile back and had owed them like $2500 (early 90's) and filed Bk. Back them I guess you could consider them pretty agressive, rather whoever they sold my account to, was pretty "annoying," even after I was discharged from my 1st Bk I still continued to get offers of settling for less, which to me makes not sense to do. Why settle for less when you already got the whole debt wiped out?

Best to all, Catchmeifyoucan !

and they were violating the law by doing that too.

[CityGirl]

Thank you all. I don't know how it will pan out for me but I'm glad I'm doing the 13 so at least it's lest conspicuous.
Also, Cathme, what about your bank account with the ATM withdrawals. I want to file next month and it will leave the past 60 days with them on there.
I gambled instead of paying Amex in other words ( makes me sick and I feel like a horrible person because of it )

I wonder if there are worse stories out there.

Also, while you're being confirmed, do they go with the monthly amount your attorney sets up with the courts and then they confirm it and change the payment?

[lrprn]

Also, while you're being confirmed, do they go with the monthly amount your attorney sets up with the courts and then they confirm it and change the payment?

CG, AmEx can't do anything to your debt with them after you file. The automatic stay prevents that.

During your Ch 13, your creditors are paid in a very specific order:
1. Your trustee takes his/her % for administering your case every month.
2. Your lawyer is paid whatever is left of his/her fee until that is paid in full.
3. Priority claims (for example, income taxes, spousal and child support) - these are all paid in full BEFORE payment to unsecured creditors can begin.
4. General unsecured claims.

AmEx will receive whatever % is going to go towards your non-secured creditors after 1-3 are paid - that's it. When your Ch 13 is successfully done and closed, you will owe AmEx nothing.

[CityGirl]

Hi Irprn ( my favorite moderator )

I'm just worried that because it's supposed to be paid in full each month, that they will cry fraud because I just charged this $6500 in the last 2 months. I'm worried about that. I don't ever pay them interest anyway but I'm just nervous about it.
My payment isn't late yet until Tuesday of this coming week. I know they will start calling then but I dont want to file until next month because of the ATM withdrawels and my income was very high the first 2 months of this year.
I can't tell them I'm filing of course, but what do I tell them????
I don't want them to call family etc....

[lrprn]

I'm just worried that because it's supposed to be paid in full each month, that they will cry fraud because I just charged this $6500 in the last 2 months.

If you used the card to pay for necessities, that's one thing. If you used it for gambling, a vacation, or other unnecessary expenses or luxury items, then you could have a problem. If you wait at least 90 days since your last charge to file, that shifts the burden to prove that you charged the money knowing you were going to file bankruptcy to AmEx and your trustee.

I can't tell them I'm filing of course, but what do I tell them???? I don't want them to call family etc....

Don't tell them anything. Put a message on your answering machine stating your name and don't answer the phone when it rings or when caller ID shows it's AmEx.

If you absolutely must answer the phone, then when they ask if they are speaking to "CG", identify yourself. Then if it's AmEx, gently hang up while they are talking. You don't have to speak to any creditor or collector. And if you've identified yourself, then they aren't allowed to call anyone else disguised as trying to find you - they did because you identified yourself. Repeat this same approach as many times as necessary.

No need to make this harder than it has to be.

[CindyLou]

Hi CityGirl ...I'm still confused as to why you don't stop paying, stop answering your phone, wait the 90 days and THEN file? Chances of them calling your family during those 90 days is slim. Have you given out your family's number on your app? Call and change your numbers now to your cell phone, it can't hurt. Plus even if did happen to call your family it would just be a "this is amex calling for XXXX, please have her call me"....they woudn't disclose any information. it would be a fill in the blank kind of thing. you could say you forgot to pay our bill. or your check got lost...etc. You could make up anything. I say wait the 90 days. Hands down.

[CityGirl]

Really? I told my attorney this same thing and he says doesn't matter. It's a 13 not a 7 and that no matter when I file, it won't matter.
He and the trustee are tight so I would think he is telling me the truth.

Can I include an overdrawn checking account as a creditor?