Probably immature, but if feels so good!

[krielly]

Hi all, I'm fairly new to the forums, but we are 26 mos into a 60 mos Chapt 13, so I'm not new to BK.

I just recently got a pacer account and logged in last week and was looking at proof of claims filed by creditors.
I found that one of them filed late (Citifinancial). I brought this to the trustee's attention and his response was to cc my lawyer and ask if he would be filing an objection, or did he want the trustee to.

The part that's a bit "immature" here on my part is that we are not in a 100% repayment to unsecured anyhow (think we're only around 33%), so objecting to this is not in any way going to save us a dime, but it gives me satisfaction that they will be out the 8K or so that they are claiming.

The were the biggest "predatory" lender that we had. Calling non-stop day and night if we were so much as 1 day late. Constantly extending credit to my DH, even when his debt/income ratio couldn't support it, and they KNEW it! I know for a fact in all of the years he dealt with them that they charged so much interest, they got their principal, several times over - regardless of the balance left on the loan at the time we filed.

I realize this is probably a bit petty on my part, but I'm so happy that they might wind up getting nothing!!!!!

Hey, gotta find some kind of humor, don't we???????

K

[lrprn]

Understandable, KR. It's hard to feel anything but victorious when we find such a satisfying (and legal!) way to deal with a creditor who made our lives a misery for months on end.

[Flamingo]

Immature?

Hi all, I'm fairly new to the forums, but we are 26 mos into a 60 mos Chapt 13, so I'm not new to BK.
I just recently got a pacer account and logged in last week and was looking at proof of claims filed by creditors.
I found that one of them filed late (Citifinancial). I brought this to the trustee's attention and his response was to cc my lawyer and ask if he would be filing an objection, or did he want the trustee to.
The part that's a bit "immature" here on my part is that we are not in a 100% repayment to unsecured anyhow (think we're only around 33%), so objecting to this is not in any way going to save us a dime, but it gives me satisfaction that they will be out the 8K or so that they are claiming.
The were the biggest "predatory" lender that we had. Calling non-stop day and night if we were so much as 1 day late. Constantly extending credit to my DH, even when his debt/income ratio couldn't support it, and they KNEW it! I know for a fact in all of the years he dealt with them that they charged so much interest, they got their principal, several times over - regardless of the balance left on the loan at the time we filed.
I realize this is probably a bit petty on my part, but I'm so happy that they might wind up getting nothing!!!!!
Hey, gotta find some kind of humor, don't we???????
K

Immature? No, just feelings that we all have at first but you will soon realize that you didn't have to accept all those credit offers when you also knew you couldn't afford it and that credit card companies and banks are just businesses trying to make a profit. Your emotions rule at first and you want to feel like things are all the fault of the creditors but when you think about it, not all the fault lies with them. It's hard for a lot of us to accept we ourselves went overboard with credit and we did not have to apply for or accept the offers from the creditors. We signed, they didn't. Yes, when you look back on all the interest charges you paid over the years, it gives you a sinking feeling that that money could have been put to better use elsewhere but remember we all signed that contract when we applied for the card/loan. The steel credit trap is an awful trap to encounter and become unsnared. We all feel angry at the creditors at first but it is not the car you are driving that hits the car in front of you that caused the accident; it's the driver of the car. The creditors get to write all their losses off on their taxes so they, in the long run, do not lose anything; while we will have BK on our credit records for 7 to 10 years.

[krielly]

Immature? No, just feelings that we all have at first but you will soon realize that you didn't have to accept all those credit offers when you also knew you couldn't afford it and that credit card companies and banks are just businesses trying to make a profit. Your emotions rule at first and you want to feel like things are all the fault of the creditors but when you think about it, not all the fault lies with them. It's hard for a lot of us to accept we ourselves went overboard with credit and we did not have to apply for or accept the offers from the creditors. We signed, they didn't. Yes, when you look back on all the interest charges you paid over the years, it gives you a sinking feeling that that money could have been put to better use elsewhere but remember we all signed that contract when we applied for the card/loan. The steel credit trap is an awful trap to encounter and become unsnared. We all feel angry at the creditors at first but it is not the car you are driving that hits the car in front of you that caused the accident; it's the driver of the car. The creditors get to write all their losses off on their taxes so they, in the long run, do not lose anything; while we will have BK on our credit records for 7 to 10 years.

Thanks, but I've been in this 13 long enough to know how we got here. Wasn't looking for your type of response here, but appreciate your opinion.
Not knowing our situation, it's unfortunate that you are jumping to conclusions, but if it makes you feel better, then that's fine.
I for one am happy that they will not be getting anything more.

[Flamingo]

Thanks, but I've been in this 13 long enough to know how we got here. Wasn't looking for your type of response here, but appreciate your opinion.
Not knowing our situation, it's unfortunate that you are jumping to conclusions, but if it makes you feel better, then that's fine.
I for one am happy that they will not be getting anything more.

I am sorry you took my posting the wrong way. We too have been through Chapter 13 (5 year plan) and all its ups and downs and we all get to that point for various reasons. My response was a general thought which is usually experienced and felt by all who go through BK (at least those I know and have talked to). At first you feel like you want to point the finger at everyone that you had nothing to do with this and that it is the creditors fault for charging all that interest but that is just a slice of the pie. I remember telling one creditor over the phone before we filed that they had received 3 fold back in interest what we owed them and the creditor stated to me that if I was the one holding the contract that they signed, wouldn't I be trying to collect what was due me? Of course I was incensed but they were totally right. Emotions are sky high during Chapter 13 and it is such a hard road to get down. I was not jumping to conclusions about your situation, just making a comment as to your thoughts on the situation - that those thoughts are usually experienced by all of us and we all feel the same way and it's good to discuss them and get various points of view.

We filed Chapter 13 due to a job loss and a severe loss of income; had we not been in so much credit card debt when that job loss occurred, we would not have had to file. It took me years to quit blaming everyone else and years of learning how to change our lifestyle. Chapter 13 is an eye opening event for all of us who are in it or have been through it. Been there in your shoes and experienced your feelings. Please don't feel that my post is any slight to you personally, it's my own feelings and those of others who have filed and experienced similar that I know or have talked to.

[krielly]

Thanks for your response. I accept total responsibility for the situation we are in, and haven't ever "blamed" any of our creditors. Sometimes it just helps to take all the seriousness out of things, blow off some steam, and "slam" a creditor here and there

It may sound strange, but I am almost grateful for the 13, in that I feel I've definitely learned a lot from it. It feels so good to live credit card free - and to know if we had it to all over again, we would do things differently......and will in the future for sure!!!!

The hardest part for me has been feeling like a second class citizen for much of these last 26 mos. Feel like "scum" sometimes as there is such a stigma surrounding BK. We are in the process of trading my husband's 95 GMC truck for something newer that will get us through the plan. We are approved for the loan by the trustee and the bank at 12.24 %. Not a good rate by any means, but much better than I thought we would get during an open 13. We tried this a few months ago, and couldn't find a lender. Got lucky this time. Gives us a sense of empowerment, I guess - and makes us feel "normal" for the 1st time in a while.

I know we'll get through this. It's tough.......but we keep plugging away.........Once we started having to live within a budget and without cc's, it really opened my eyes to how much money I'd been pretty much throwing away over the years - little amounts really add up!

K

[woeisme]

I think that it's natural to feel all of the feeling expressed in this thread.

Why shouldn't you feel glad that some of your less predatory lenders are going to benefit at the expense of a more predatory company? They had the time to hassle you non-stop pre-BK, so should have been able to file their claim on time, right? Why should those who follow the rules (your other creditors) get the same % payback as the one who ignored the BK rules for filing dates? They dropped the ball, so too bad for them, in my opinion! I'm proposing a 65% payback plan (just had 341 meeting this week so actual amount will depend on who files claims by Feb) but if some don't file in time, I'm not going to feel sorry for them even though it won't change my payments at all. Not gleeful (unless 35% or more don't file, then I'll be happy because it benefits me!) but not sorry for them either.

Providian is the one that jacked my interest to 32% despite perfect payment history, setting up the domino effect that led me here. My fault, I used the credit, no one forced it down my throat. They had the ability to raise my interest rate whenever they wanted to, and just took the option available to them, jacked up interest on 15K of debt from 12% to 32%. I did the same thing they did, just took the legal option available to me, CH 13. I will learn from my mistakes, and they probably even did me a favor, otherwise I would have kept limping along making minimum payments and stayed massively in debt the rest of my life. (90K total debt). I wonder if I should write them a thank-you letter for waking me up to how dire my situation was?

[krielly]

I wonder if I should write them a thank-you letter for waking me up to how dire my situation was?

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!! Might make you feel good, if nothing else

[chpxiii]

krielly,

I know what you mean by feeling immature that you feel gleeful and happy that you are going to be able to "stick it back" to a creditor. I understand that that is what you were referring to.

I think that as regular ol'people, we're not used to looking at technicalities. We go by our hearts and morals. If we owe money, we feel the obligation to pay. But then it gets to the point when we can't and so we use legal means we have to be absolved of that debt: bankruptcy.

However, when we file bankruptcy we know we won't have to pay back debt that we feel we owe - after all, we did borrow the money and had every intention to pay back. Life happens. And sometimes our intentions cannot be met. So we turn, during desperate times, to bankruptcy.

I totally understand why you would probably feel "immature" in this situation. It's a new feeling. It's a new feeling to find something, a technicality, and actually USE it then get satisfaction in return. I have that in new situations as well. It's almost like saying, "neener-neener neener! I got you baaaaaaaaack! I got you baaaaaaack! Neener! Neener! Neener!" hehehehe.....

I think that once you get used to use all technicalities, all advantages, and start to take the mind of the businesses and creditors think, it won't feel so immature but more "business smarts." And it also won't feel so much like it's "neener! neener! neener!" but more of a feeling of, "Hey. That's not right. We need to fix that."

It's just all new feelings. I totally hear where you're coming from. Kudos and bravo to you for finding this and taking action. Creditors rely on consumers being ignorant and take advantage of that. When you think of it that way, the feeling of being immature will go away. I so do not think it's immature at all. Nor is it being petty.

Hey, if someone wants us to stick to the letter of contracts or the law, then they damn well better do the same AND be held accountable and responsible for doing so!

Let us know what happens.

[JRTLover]

Immature? No, just feelings that we all have at first but you will soon realize that you didn't have to accept all those credit offers when you also knew you couldn't afford it and that credit card companies and banks are just businesses trying to make a profit.

True, but similarly would you offer an alcoholic person more booze? They might not say yes at first, but after repeatedly getting offers, it would be difficult to refuse, even knowing the consequences. That's predatory.

It's not like these companies were completely unaware of a persons' finances. A quick credit check would easily show it.

I compare it to the "subprime housing market" stuff that is currently causing grief. These companies offered credit to people who they KNOWINGLY had bad credit, in an effort to "give them their American dream" of home ownership. Bull. It was an effort to make money off of a person who already had financial problems. Pardon me, but that is downright sorry, and I don't feel bad that these companies got bitten by it. Their greed got 'em in hot water.

Anyhow, that is a subject for another day.

[aa06a47]

I received a call from MBNA shortly after I filed (They had not received the BK notice at that time). I thanked them so much for jacking my rate up from 3.9% to 29.999% because it made me realize I would never be able to pay them back and made me realize BK was my only option. You could have heard a pin drop. I then asked them if they wanted my case no, she said yes, I gave it to her and never heard from her again!!!.

[Flamingo]

True, but similarly would you offer an alcoholic person more booze? They might not say yes at first, but after repeatedly getting offers, it would be difficult to refuse, even knowing the consequences. That's predatory.
It's not like these companies were completely unaware of a persons' finances. A quick credit check would easily show it.
I compare it to the "subprime housing market" stuff that is currently causing grief. These companies offered credit to people who they KNOWINGLY had bad credit, in an effort to "give them their American dream" of home ownership. Bull. It was an effort to make money off of a person who already had financial problems. Pardon me, but that is downright sorry, and I don't feel bad that these companies got bitten by it. Their greed got 'em in hot water.
Anyhow, that is a subject for another day.

There is a point that wakes us up during the time period prior to considering bankruptcy where we really know our backs are against the wall and that is when the sharks come out and you realize it and finally realize they don't want to help you, they want to get what you have. In our instance, we tried to stay afloat by utilizing savings, robbing Peter to pay Paul, etc. for several month's after the job loss that caused a 70% decrease in our household income. The creditors catch on when you use cash advances to pay another account - doesn't take long of course. About 6 months after the job loss, we started getting phone calls from places that said they could help us out with a second mortgage so we investigated the offer. They overnighted the draft paperwork and statements to us and upon review, I looked at my spouse and said "this is highway robbery." The fees were astronomical. They would be taking advantage of us, if we signed those papers without reading everything in full and working hard on our emotions that they could get us out of the hole we were in, by knowing that there is no way, on one income alone, that we could actually afford it. That is predatory lending at its finest. We did not sign; they called us and asked where the papers were and I told them we were calling to make an appointment with a BK lawyer cause we didn't want to lose our house and with the documents they sent us, that is what would happen. You should have heard the tirade they gave us, trying to work on our emotions, knowing full well they were losing a commision in their pocket, not caring about us at all. We know we did the right thing, even though as the other poster stated on here, it made us feel less worthy in others eyes to have filed BK. I've gotten over that; it is a life event but I do know realize that had we not gone overboard in the years prior to that job loss and not taken everything for granted, we would not have had to file. That is my lesson learned (the hard way). No job is safe, no income is safe. Sometimes all it can take is an unexpected illness or accident and it can set the spin in motion. And with a lot of debt, the spiral will not stop.

May I add that I once talked to a co-worker who filed Chapter 13 a few years prior to us and she was the one who told us to investigate filing after I told her about our situation. She told me she felt so bad afterward that she cried in front of the Trustee at the hearing and apologized to him for having to file and not be able to pay back her creditors and that it was her own fault for getting herself in the situation she was in. But she also told me it was the catalyst that she needed to get that fresh start and out from the burden and to learn from the entire situation. She was right.