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Car in Chap 13 - Now I'm really confused

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    Car in Chap 13 - Now I'm really confused

    Evening everyone. I finally met with my atty today. Filed a motion to dismiss my 7 and convert from to a 13. My payment is a lot higher than I expected, looked over the paper work closely, and unfortunately it's correct. I'm at $818 per month for 60 months, ugh. But am hoping that some of the creditors won't file a claim and that will decrease my payment, wish me luck. However I'm really confused now and hopefully someone can set me straight.

    I have a car that I'm co-owner on with my son. I had planned on re-affirming the vehicle, that I have and use, so that the BK won't show on his credit file. I told my atty this but he said that the car payment would be included in my monthly payment to the court/trustee. He said that I won't be paying it separately, and that it won't affect my son's credit. I thought in order for it not to affect a co-signer/co-owner the person filing BK would have to reaffirm the vehicle and pay it outside of the BK? He said the same thing about my furniture payment. Both these debts are secured which must be paid etc. He said both debts will be extended through the 60 month period. Any thoughts?

    Also, $25000 of the debt is for an unsecured/repo of another vehicle. If they file a claim we will object due to the fact the lien holder (Wells Fargo) never notified me of the sale, which is required by FL State Statute, nor have they filed any suits against me, nor have they sent me any collections, etc. The car was repo'd in Sep 07. They sold the car at a private sale on Oct and only notified me after they sold it, etc. They were supposed to notify prior to any sale, etc. And to top it off, they listed the debt as "charged off" on my credit report.

    Any help/advice/information would and is greatly appreciated. Thanks again for everyone's help.

    Oh yea, btw, my atty also said that I will NOT have to turn over the rebate, future tax returns, or report any increase in salary. He said they don't pay any attention, nor do they care. We shall see. I have my 341 on Monday for Chap 7 that I still must attend and advise them of the conversion, etc. Wish me luck!

    #2
    Just out of curiosity...why are you converting? Did the attorney miscalculate something when originally filed the chapter 7?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by seanf12 View Post
      Just out of curiosity...why are you converting? Did the attorney miscalculate something when originally filed the chapter 7?


      Yes, that's exactly what he did, by $1000. On the means test it allows me $800 and change for housing. He put $1800 and change. Didn't catch it, but the trustee sure did.

      Comment


        #4
        Sorry to hear about that. Do you rent or own?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by nojusticehere View Post
          My payment is a lot higher than I expected, looked over the paper work closely, and unfortunately it's correct. I'm at $818 per month for 60 months, ugh. But am hoping that some of the creditors won't file a claim and that will decrease my payment....
          I so hate to have to be the person to tell you this, but your Ch 13 payment is not based on how many of your creditors file claims.

          If your plan goes in at $818/month, that's how much you'll pay even if none of your non-secured creditors would file claims. The only thing that reduces your payment is a significant and permanent change in your financial circumstances that forces you to ask your lawyer to file an amended plan. So sorry to burst the bubble

          I thought in order for it not to affect a co-signer/co-owner the person filing BK would have to reaffirm the vehicle and pay it outside of the BK?
          When we filed Ch 13, our low-20s-aged son and daughter were listed as co-owners on their respective car loans. We had the same conversation with our lawyer who gave us the same advice yours gave to you - as long as the auto lenders are getting their full payment, they won't go after your kids. And since your kids did not file bankruptcy - only you and your spouse did - their part of the car loan cannot be listed as IIB (included in bankruptcy) on their credit reports. And if it is listed as IIB by mistake, all they have to do is dispute it and it will be corrected. What our lawyer told us is exactly what has happened. (By the way, we did *NOT* reaffirm any of our cars either.) I'm betting what your lawyer told you is accurate.

          I have my 341 on Monday for Chap 7 that I still must attend and advise them of the conversion, etc. Wish me luck!
          Good luck - I'm betting all will go smoothly!
          Last edited by lrprn; 03-13-2008, 06:56 PM.
          I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

          06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
          06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
          07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
          10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
          01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
          09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
          06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
          08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

          10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
          Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

          Comment


            #6
            Quote:
            "I so hate to have to be the person to tell you this, but your Ch 13 payment is not based on how many of your creditors file claims. "

            Does it mean it will shorten the duration if not all creditors file a claim? If none of the non-secured creditors file a claim, where does the $818 go? That's more than my secured over a 60 month period.

            Quote:
            "as long as the auto lenders are getting their full payment, they won't go after your kids. And since your kids did not file bankruptcy - only you and "

            This may be a problem. On the schedule my atty has my car payment at $300 per month, when actually it's $410. He said that the total amount due is calculated by 60 months which brings it to $300 per month over a 60 month period. Does the creditor get $410 or $300?

            Again thank you!!! Sometimes my head just spins!!!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by nojusticehere View Post
              Quote:
              "Quote:
              "as long as the auto lenders are getting their full payment, they won't go after your kids. And since your kids did not file bankruptcy - only you and "

              This may be a problem. On the schedule my atty has my car payment at $300 per month, when actually it's $410. He said that the total amount due is calculated by 60 months which brings it to $300 per month over a 60 month period. Does the creditor get $410 or $300?

              Again thank you!!! Sometimes my head just spins!!!
              What your attorney did was "cram" your vehicle into your Chapter 13 payment. Cramming eliminated all, if not most, of the interest due on your vehicle so they are getting a payment which would be less than what you would be paying if you did not file.
              _________________________________________
              Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
              Early Buy-Out: April 2006
              Discharge: August 2006

              "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

              Comment


                #8
                Does it mean it will shorten the duration if not all creditors file a claim? If none of the non-secured creditors file a claim, where does the $818 go? That's more than my secured over a 60 month period.
                Yes, if the "total" of your payments ($818 x 60) exceeds the total claims, the duration is shortened.

                Comment


                  #9
                  You guys are a God Send!!!! Thank you so much!!! This has really been confusing for me, some things I'm just not grasping!

                  So, I shouldn't worry about including the vehicle in the 13 payment plan (not pay it outside the plan and not reaffirmi) as it won't affect my son's credit. And.....I should also inlcude the furniture payment inside the payment plan (not pay it outside and not reaffirm). Should I reaffirm both? What's the advantage, if any?

                  And....the $818 monthly includes my car payment, furniture payment, and all other nonsecured. I won't have to pay separate, ie., car, furniture, plus the $818 monthly????

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                    What your attorney did was "cram" your vehicle into your Chapter 13 payment. Cramming eliminated all, if not most, of the interest due on your vehicle so they are getting a payment which would be less than what you would be paying if you did not file.

                    Will the lien holder have a problem with this?.... Paying a montly payment less (inside the plan) than what I'm paying now outside the plan?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Your furniture is considered secured and will be paid as part of the plan.

                      Generally speaking, if you don't pay anything outside of your plan (usually it's student loan, mortgage, and for some people vehicles) all of your payment into the plan goes to the trustee who then disburses your payments to your creditors.
                      Chapter 13 Filed "Old Law"
                      Filed: 6/2003 Confirmed: 3/2004
                      Early pay off sent: 10/05/2007 - 9 months early
                      11/16/2007 - Discharged!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by nojusticehere View Post
                        Will the lien holder have a problem with this?.... Paying a montly payment less (inside the plan) than what I'm paying now outside the plan?
                        Generally speaking, no.
                        Chapter 13 Filed "Old Law"
                        Filed: 6/2003 Confirmed: 3/2004
                        Early pay off sent: 10/05/2007 - 9 months early
                        11/16/2007 - Discharged!

                        Comment

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