top Ad Widget

**lrprn** · 04-23-2008, 08:59 AM

Hang in there, Mrs. H. Your 341 will be over in 5 minutes and you'll be wondering what all the fuss was about

Come back to let us know how it goes, ok?

**Mrs. H** · 04-23-2008, 01:39 PM

Thanks lrprn. I will let you know what happens.

Yes, hoping for quick AND in our favor for the meeting. I kept reading that they usually object to something. Both my husband and the lawyer have been informed by me that they maybe have a 20-30 second window of time to speak up about something scary. I'm going to try to keep as quiet as possible. They need to know this so I don't jump out of my seat and freak out if they try to raise our amount by some impossible level.

Boy, I was out of it earlier - sorry about that! Losing sleep is bad in so many ways.

So, I'll be back with details soon. As always, I have to go do something. Dinner's on the agenda right now, almost being six o'clock here.

My advice to anyone in this situation would be to keep yourself as busy as possible - and to get your rest.

**lrprn** · 04-23-2008, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Mrs. H View Post

They need to know this so I don't jump out of my seat and freak out if they try to raise our amount by some impossible level.

If your trustee thinks you should pay a higher Ch 13 payment or a creditor decides to file an objection to not have their debt discharged, you typically won't hear about it at your 341. You'll hear about it afterwards when your trustee files an objection (unfortunately these days more common with the mish-mash of legal interpretations across different districts and local courts) or if your creditor files an objection. Your lawyer is prepped so he/she will handle it smartly.

There have to be solid legal grounds for filing an objection - the trustee or a creditor can't just do it because they want to.

Boy, I was out of it earlier - sorry about that! Losing sleep is bad in so many ways.

Glad you are feeling back the swing of things now and plan to take your own excellent advice!

**Mrs. H** · 04-24-2008, 03:54 AM

lrprn - Thank you for the boost of confidence. I hope the Trustee doesn't find any reasons because I can't think of any.

Well, we'll be leaving soon. It's only down the road in Cherry Hill. We drove past it last night. An un-intimidating building across from a Wal-mart with a big star on it. I'm surprisingly more calm and eager than nervous today. Being somewhat nocturnal, I actually managed 2 1/2 hours of sleep. Welcome to my 341 journal...

Last night I got a huge magazine - the newest issue of Real Simple - to bring with me. Magazines aren't something that I would normally buy, but I figure that otherwise I could be sitting and looking at a wall for 2 hours. When I bought it - I thought wouldn't it be funny if I was sitting there reading a copy of Money? Heh. But I don't have the guts to do it or to be bored to death! I'm not sure if magazines fit into our budget anyway, so I'd better hide it in my tote bag! How's that for sarcasm?!

This morning, as I was picking out my clothes, I was thinking of how to dress for this and another funny thought occurred. There are absolutely no articles whatsoever anywhere on how to dress for this sort of thing. I imagined a cover story that read - "Destitute Dressing - How to be the House Poor Hottie at your 341!" Then, I grew up and put on a simple polo shirt and loose pants.

So, that's my brain today. I may be bankrupt, but I've still got my sense of humor...for now. Here's hoping the trustee doesn't take it away!

Well, better get going. I sincerely hope to have yet another - "It was so easy" story for you later on - fingers crossed, prayers said.

**dragonnfly** · 04-24-2008, 12:59 PM

You know thats odd you say that about clothes. I wear uniforms for work and Im a very casual dresser at home. That was the first thing that came in to my mind when I read on Pacer that our 341 is June 2nd. It was "Oh god what do you wear to this??" My dumpy jeans and T's just seems a bit too casual (and pathatic at that). But the dress I got at Goodwill for the last wedding we went to is way to dressy. That just struck me as a funny thought. Wondering if they even pay attention to those details like we do. Hope your 341 went well. Dragonnfly

**Mrs. H** · 04-25-2008, 04:26 AM

341 is done -

First, to dragonnfly: about the clothes for your 341 - jeans and a t-shirt would be just fine. The range was people dressed for work to people in jeans. If it had been warmer, you may have seen some shorts and flip-flops in there, I imagine. I went with a plain very dark green polo shirt, loose black pants and sneaker-type shoes. I do believe that one of the lawyers there (that we had interviewed and did not use) had his clients go for a serious down in the dumps look. I mean, two different people he was representing looked like they hadn't combed their hair and the women had no makeup and puffy, bloodshot eyes. He's the lawyer that we were warned against using by other people on this board, so I wouldn't put it past him to have brought them into a field of ragweed before showing up just to get that look. Sorry!

So, here's how it went for us -

You go into this small room with about 50 seats. You go to the reception desk and give someone your name and he checks your license and social security card to verify that it's really you. Your folder is put into one of four piles and you are asked to take a seat.

Lawyer showed up about ten minutes later. There is a TV above the reception desk turned to CNN. There is a magazine rack with SJ Magazine and, yes, a copy of Forbes among others. The room has high windows which let in light. Our lawyer knows some of the others and they hold light conversation in front of us. The people in the room range from our age group (30's and 40's) straight up to a few in their 60's. One couple, the woman dressed in nurses' scrubs, has a kid with them. We find out it's "take your daughter to work day." I think about how that kid is never going to forget this and make a small whispered comment to my husband. He agrees. Best for him after almost seven years of marriage exactly one month from today - and on his birthday, too, so he could never forget it.

At exactly 9 am - different people come out and grab a folder from their pile. They call a name. The people and their lawyers disappear through a door. Never to return. No!

We discover by listening to people coming in that there's a 9 am group (us), a 10 am group and so on. I didn't know that. I thought the maybe 25 people in the room was it for the day. Wrong.

There is a bathroom, I'm told by my husband who had to go. It's down the hall and past some remodeling going on. I decide they're gonna call us when I'm in there and decide against it. And that's what would have happened.

To be continued in a few minutes - cats want something! I listen to my bosses...

**Mrs. H** · 04-25-2008, 06:28 AM

back now - here's the actual meeting...

Our names are called and the last name is badly massacred, as usual. The lawyer says it correctly to the lady.

The lady leads us to a small office with more natural light. There is a computer desk which she sits behind. The lawyer, my husband and myself sit in the three seats in front of the desk. The woman introduces herself as an assistant of the Trustee. She looks like someone's grandmother and reminds me more of Mrs. Butterworth than anything else. She has a warm face and the ability to smile. There is no one in the room except for the four of us and a tape recorder.

She starts the tape recorder and tells us that our answers will be recorded. We are asked to state our names for the record. We do that as well as answering several questions about where we live and what is on the Chapter 13 petition. Sorry, it's a blur still - believe it or not - I cannot for the life of me remember exactly what was asked - except for the fact that these were very easy, very answerable questions. I do, however, remember what was not asked.

Now, I think it is best for me to generalize what happened.

I was completely surprised at the fact that what everyone seems to worry about the most on this forum, including myself, was never discussed at all.

*What was NOT covered is the following:

-There was no mention whatsoever of any payment amount or length of time for payments.

-Future raises were not mentioned at all.

-Future tax refunds, rebates, stimulus package - not a thought was given to them.

-The only handbook we ever got was a 2-sheet piece of paper on the way in from the receptionist. (Forgot to mention it earlier.) It was mostly about where and how to send your payment in.

-We were not told that anyone would be reviewing any of our future tax returns.

*What we thought would be issues, but they weren't:

-We were asked if anyone lives with us. We mentioned my mother who came to live in our house one year after we were married. We didn't claim her for the Chapter 13 and don't claim her on our taxes. We support her except for her job which she uses to pay her own car and credit cards. She lives with us for free and we feed and entertain her. (Whether anyone likes it or not, that's the way it is. Heck, we're not thrilled with it either, but have been unsuccessful in finding her a husband.) We simplified our answers about all of this to the Trustee's assistant. Something like, mother/mother-in-law lives with us, but we basically take care of her. It was a non-issue and we were onto the next subject.

-Our expenses were not a problem. I know that everyone worries about this one. Cable, phones and the like were never discussed although we thought they would be. Reason being, the cell phones and house phone come to $160 a month. We are not phone talkers at all! We use it maybe a few times a day for less than a minute each time. "Hi" and "bye." They may not have had a problem with it, but it is my first plan of attack when/if we get confirmed. Gotta be something cheaper for us out there. Neither of us drink or smoke, but have the cats to take care of and we like to eat, so that's what worried us about our expenses the most.

-I took a small flexible job from home because our lawyer said that it was best for us to keep the income to a certain level. He had mentioned that it was best to start after confirmation. Knowing that the amount that we have been left with per month is ridiculously low for our food and supplies and having been told also that it was best for us to keep both of our cars, I started it before the 341 meeting. You gotta do what you gotta do. The assistant asked if there was any change in income. I mentioned the work and that it was a minimal amount of money (between you and me - enough to cover the payment of the one leased car that we were told to keep - but I didn't say that to her). She asked when I started and I told her about a month ago. She had no problem with it at all and even said that a lot of people in this situation take small side jobs.

The assistant mentions that when the car goes off of lease that we need to let them know if we try to buy it or if we get another car. There's 18 months left to figure it out.

(Bored yet? It gets better...)

*What we thought would not be an issue, but IT WAS:

-We were asked which one of us is the gambler. My husband doesn't play much, so it must be me. I spoke up. Now, I wouldn't call myself a gambler anymore. There was a short year and a half ending in the beginning of 2007, where there was some very small investment on my part (of about a hundred dollars a trip) with huge wins. We live near Atlantic City and, like most people I know in NJ, we went there from time to time. I got on a winning streak - a big one. Again, with small investments each time. I played only video poker and found out that there are comp clubs out there that the normal person doesn't know exists. I got membership to one of these clubs because I put in $200 total one night and came out $40,000 richer with my only cardboard check ever. The next day, we paid off most of our largest credit card with the money. I studied under Bob Dancer and became an expert. Video poker players will know him and his wife Shirley - nice people. I played at a rate of 1000+ hands per minute (EDIT- per HOUR, per minute is impossible!), timed. I would have several machines ringing a night. I had 60 W-2G forms inside of literally 3 months. You probably don't believe me, but it's true. Around the beginning of 2007 - as I said before - the wins stopped. I tried some, but had no luck so I went back to recreational gambling from time to time. I stopped viewing gambling as a job - one that literally paid our credit cards and carried us for over a year. Well, that's truly what is was to me. So, thanks to the amount on the tax return - I guess I look like I have a serious gambling problem to this Trustee's assistant.

Gamblers out there have mentioned that it is a question that they ask and basically skim over. Not so here. It may be our close proximity to Atlantic City, but I was basically put completely on the spot. I was asked when I gambled last. I was asked where I gambled. I was flat out told NEVER to gamble again. I was not put on "the list" of gamblers not allowed into casinos - but you should know that this is something new that they're doing now. Later on, our lawyer even was surprised that it was discussed in such detail. Like others here, I thought it would be a non-issue. Well, that's what I was prepared for, so I was completely blindsided by this. Of course, I never went through the large story above in the meeting - I really just wanted everyone on here to understand my story.

So, whether you have a gambling problem or not - if your tax form says you had a large win - well, you probably won't get this kind of grilling at all. I think that it was just saved for me somehow. I mean, I'm an animal activist, a perfectionist with a hand-washing OCD and I like to take care of our home. Gambling was a job to me for a while as long as it paid me. Once it didn't it was over. After the meeting yesterday, I am literally sh!t-scared to go into a casino. I mean, the lawyer asked the assistant at the meeting and right in front of us - how when people get on "the list" how casinos know when you're there. Ummm - cameras, comp cards. Heck, Bally's had security watching me at one point because I swear they thought I had a method of cheating. On video poker?

So, I was centered out big time. What irritates me is that I am positive that they think that the gambling is what got us into this bankruptcy. Absolutely not in our case. If anything, the only thing that kept our heads above water were the wins at the time. It was much later on when my husband's work was cut down and we had refinanced one too many times. Even all of my wins could never pay down all of our previously-incurred credit card debt.

Trust me, though, I know I had a very lucky time once and would never tell anyone to use gambling as a career. I do think that not ever setting a foot into a casino again is a little more than harsh. I'm in absolute fear of going back because I don't want to jeopardize our case, although if I didn't use my player's/comp card I don't think they would know. (?) Especially if you didn't play anything where you couldn't possibly get a tax form - under $1200 in NJ.

I have mentioned all of this to you because I want to tell you the truth about what happened.

Although greatly expanded on, it was a non-issue issue. We were not told in any way that it would effect the outcome of our Chapter 13. Only if we couldn't make our payments - then that would be an issue.

So, that's what happened. I left the place dizzy. My husband was fine. Being the logical person that he is, he summed it all up as being a positive outlook for the original payment proposed. The lawyer agrees. The forever pessimist, I reminded him that there's still a couple of hurdles. Objections, claims, confirmation, 5 years of payments, a towering mortgage that he demands we keep, the fact that if he loses his job we're done and the fact that he has a secret security clearance at his job, if we ever lose the house we need to find one to rent with our cats...(The last the absolute most important of them all to me in all honesty.)

We went home and rehashed all of it for a long time. I waited to post about it because I wanted to digest it first.

I checked Pacer and all it says is "Awaiting confirmation hearing" under the Status section. I hope I'm looking in the right place because that sounds OK so far. (?)

So, that's our story. I'm nothing if not detailed.

**Flamingo** · 04-25-2008, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by dragonnfly View Post

You know thats odd you say that about clothes. I wear uniforms for work and Im a very casual dresser at home. That was the first thing that came in to my mind when I read on Pacer that our 341 is June 2nd. It was "Oh god what do you wear to this??" My dumpy jeans and T's just seems a bit too casual (and pathatic at that). But the dress I got at Goodwill for the last wedding we went to is way to dressy. That just struck me as a funny thought. Wondering if they even pay attention to those details like we do. Hope your 341 went well. Dragonnfly

Isn't it funny the things we think of? I remember giong to ours and I just wore something business casual like I was giong to work. However, there were people there who looked like they didn't have a bath in a week and there were those nicely professionally groomed. Just go looking groomed and nice and put on dress slacks or a skirt/blouse. I usually don't go anywhere looking really bad unless it's a quick trip to the supermarket because you just never, ever know who you are going to run into...and first impressions always count.

**Flamingo** · 04-25-2008, 01:00 PM

Mrs. H - I read your 341 experience with interest - they are all so different - one thing that occurred at ours was there was a tax representative from the state Division of Revenue there and if you owed taxes and were paying them back in the Plan you were given a speach about what you owed and that it was your priority as a citizen of this country to pay your taxes, first and foremost. We owed the State $417 which was included in our filing. I bit my tongue about all the years I/we paid state taxes and we owe a measily $417 due to a crushing life event sending us in a tailspin downward spiral and are talked to like scum in the gutter. My hubby saw me getting irritated and elbowed me during her speach. I kept quiet.

It was all Chapter 13s the day we were there and it appeared they grouped all the filings your attorney had and scheduled them on that day. The Trustee and our attorney sat at the head table and we were called up one by one, as singles or couples depending on the filing. It was awful to sit there and listen to others and their troubles knowing your turn was coming shortly. But you get through it. The tax representative really irritated me with the tone of her voice to us and everyone who had taxes in their plan. Just like you with the gambling speach, it really made you feel like you were put on the spot when really all they are doing is their job. No one else in there knows you and the trustee and attorney could probably care less as they have heard and seen it all.

Best of luck to you with your Plan.

**Mrs. H** · 04-25-2008, 03:04 PM

Flamingo -

I sympathize with you. It obviously wasn't something you could avoid - and to be scolded like that is ridiculous. And you had your meeting in front of other people which must have made it worse.

Yes, you're right - she was doing her job. It's all in a day's work for her.

After I wrote all of that stuff before, I couldn't help but think - there's no extra money to gamble with anyway! What are these people thinking? It makes you want to yell at them: "You're getting all of the disposable income - and then some - if this works out, so don't sweat it!"

**Mrs. H** · 04-29-2008, 02:06 AM

One question -

Does "Awaiting confirmation hearing" on Pacer sound OK? I think that from the other posts that it does, but it would be nice to hear it - just for me.

It would be nice if I had a crystal ball, too, but somehow I think we all wish we had one of those. The wait feels long already.

I want to start one of those signatures that denotes progress - some wishful thinking, I guess.

**lrprn** · 04-29-2008, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by Mrs. H View Post

Does "Awaiting confirmation hearing" on Pacer sound OK?

Yes, this is typical after the 341 is over.

I want to start one of those signatures that denotes progress - some wishful thinking, I guess.

Your turn will come for one of those super-snazzy sigs before you know it, Mrs. H! Hang in there!

top Ad Widget

Announcement

Hi (again) and our 341 is tomorrow...

Hi (again) and our 341 is tomorrow...

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

bottom Ad Widget