% Payback (it doesn't matter)

[ColoradoBell]

Wish I could add to this thread, but I can hardly even understand it.
I admit this 13 stuff is way over my head.
I think I 've got the 7 down tho.

I understand about having to give up the investment property because you shouldn't be able to raise equity in non-primary while unsecured creditors 'suffer'. I'm going to give up my investment BUT I'll have to pay $45k in damages if I do...and that gets me more into unsecured debt.

I guess I'm having the most trouble with my past 6 months of income being a kazillion times higher than the next 6 months and after income....so using the old income /expenses on a means test (which I don't have to take for a 7 cuz of teh investment property, but since they use it to determine DMI in a 13....) is just mind-boggling. There really should be some kind of formula if you are going from income to exempt income but can't wait to file until the exempt income comes into play. Argh.

[Spent]

Yes, but with some exceptions. There are some Districts, don't ask me to name them but it's only one or two, that require you to pay at least 10% (or something like that). The large majority of the Districts, a Plan can be confirmed with no payments to unsecured creditors.

I won't ask you to name them, but can anyone tell me whether Maryland is in one of those Districts with a minimum repayment plan percentage?

We could easily file Ch 7, but we want to keep the house. We are almost done with a HAMP modification on our home which will make our 1st mortgage payments doable. However, the second mortgage has defaulted, and I have been told that catching up is not even an option. The only reason that they don't foreclose is that the house is worth less than the balance on the 1st.

We have about $70k in unsecured debts, and if we successfully include the 2nd mortgage that will add $54k to that number. There is no way we can afford to make the payments on 10% of $124k even if it was extended to 5 years.

Here is a new question for you - The balance on our 1st mortgage before the modification is $291k. After the modification, capitalized interest and fees will bring it up to $314k. In order to strip off the 2nd, does the value of the house need to be below $291k or $314k? I think it will be well below $291k, but I just am really curious about how this will work.

[Majakat]

Yes, no secured loans but the home - just dont want to be paying back BB value for a car with 166k miles - how do jeeps retain so much value anyway!

Speaking of which, will the trustee ever negotiate for less than BB value on vehicles?

[lrprn]

If you do not want to pay back for a non exempt asset, can you choose to abandon it instead of adding it into the plan?

Yes.

However, if you are currently making payments on the asset, whatever you save because you surrender the asset and no longer are making the payment *might* not be able to be used as an expense on the Means Test and Schedules. It depends on your bk district. Some districts will not allow you to claim an asset payment as an expense if you intend to surrender it when you file.

Be sure to ask your lawyer about this.

Of course, if your asset is paid in full, then you can surrender it to your trustee and never look back

[Majakat]

If you do not want to pay back for a non exempt asset, can you choose to abandon it instead of adding it into the plan?

[tigergem]

Did your attorney help you craft this? We put all of our actual expenses in our budget too and and our attorney today kept saying we could not have things like a gym membership and our expenses were too high with just one income and we needed to add more income in.

Does this seem right to you?

Yeah. My attorney helped me.

(Sorry.) No. I filed pro se.

Yeah I can see that they probably won't allow gym memberships. The trustee will probably tell you to jog around the block for free and do aerobics from tv. At least, probably mine would tell you that.

How the heck are you supposed to "add in" income that isn't there? No that not only doesn't seem right, but it doesn't seem possible, unless you actually go out and get another job or something.

But if your attorney is telling you that your expenses are too much for your income, then it sounds to me like you are not living within your means. If you are going to be under a Chapter 13, you really really need to get a handle on your budget and expenses. And things you take for granted, like gym memberships are going to have to go. You're going to have to learn to live more frugally to make it work.

I work really hard to make mine work. It's not easy, but it is so worth while.

[Fallonedward]

I worked my plan very carefully. My budgeted expenses allow me to put 10% of my income in savings and my plan allows for less than 1% repayment of the unsecured. It's a thing of beauty. A true work of art. I'm so proud.

That is partially because I did not skip one single ANNUAL expense in my budget. And part of that 10% right now is actually going toward court fees and the cost of printing or copying and mailing stuff for my BK, amendment costs, etc and gas to the court house.

Did your attorney help you craft this? We put all of our actual expenses in our budget too and and our attorney today kept saying we could not have things like a gym membership and our expenses were too high with just one income and we needed to add more income in.

Does this seem right to you?

[NoTomatoCan]

BKchapter13 - I am very curious about your $20,000 "trump card" or wild card exemption in Michigan. I just filed, and we had to use federal exemptions because Michigan does not have a wild card exemption (and the federal wild card is not $20k).

Probably off topic for this payback % sticky, but what you wrote is not lining up with what I personally experienced.

[justbroke]

you can claim 20000.00 personal assets for each person that is under the bankruptcy and that cannot be touched by the creditors, I think its called the trumph card, that is one of the perks under chapter 13, jewelry to collectible items and anything that comes out to that amount, we had to get an estimate from experts and submit it for a coin collection, we didnt have anything nearly close to the 20 thousand each. good luck

Exemptions are State specific. Whether the exemption can be doubled (if the debtor and spouse are filing together) is another question of State exemptions.

You seem to be writing about the "wild card". Please temper your exemptions amount with the name of the State in which you can claim them. Not all States have wildcards, and even those that do have one, have paltry amounts compared to the $20K you're quoting.

[BKchapter13]

yep, that is a plan, we also came up with a very hard budget, we may not do or buy many things but we also have money in bank that when we do come out of our chapter we will be alot better off then anytime in our lives. Gosh no debts, cant you imagine that. Budget, budget and budget even more. you can cut costs every where. When I go out now I make all right hand turns and just circle round my errands for the day and I save on gas. so many ways to budget..

[BKchapter13]

you can claim 20000.00 personal assets for each person that is under the bankruptcy and that cannot be touched by the creditors, I think its called the trumph card, that is one of the perks under chapter 13, jewelry to collectible items and anything that comes out to that amount, we had to get an estimate from experts and submit it for a coin collection, we didnt have anything nearly close to the 20 thousand each. good luck

[SMinGA]

Pete, you don't plan your budget to pay back x%... Analyze your income & expenses and the difference becomes your plan payment. So be realistic on your expenses and take some time to think about it. Consider the things you need constantly (Food, gas, etc.) and also the occasional items (clothing, vehicle maintenance, etc).

[pete42]

I'm getting ready to meet with my attorney to go over a budget for my chapter 13 filing. Do you have any advice on how you came up with your yearly budget so you only got stuck paying back 10% of the debt?

[klandsb]

Pete I am in Western PA ....Started at 71% payback , after 341 got lowered to 40% payback... YAHOO. I could never imagine being out of debt in my lifetime. Hoping never ,ever to let myself get in this position again. Its cash only life now. Not easy sometimes and I dont get everything I want but the feeling of being debt free in 5 yrs is awesome ....

[pete42]

Any help is appreciated in PA. I have 60k in credit card debt. I have a new house that I have no equity in and 2 new cars with no equity. Our take home pay is about $6k/mnth. Living expenses including mortgage, cars, food, etc is about $4500/mnth. Any idea what kind of monthly payment i'd be looking at in a chapt13 plan for 60mnths.