% Payback (it doesn't matter)

[LadyInTheRed]

Also, the percentage changes as the plan progresses. I started out at 3% and am at 18 now. If my plan ended once the 18% of claims are paid I would be done early, but the trustee and attorney both state to focus on the plan base. I thought the comment Justbroke used to describe it as fluid is a good way to describe the payback percentage.

Unfortunate that we must complete the plan even though it looks like we may be done early. I was disappointed but did not get to excited in the first place as it looked to good to be true.

Misunderstandings like yours is exactly what the thread was meant to address. Once the plan is confirmed, the only thing a debtor should worry about is the amount of the plan payment and the duration of the plan. The exception is that if you pay enough to pay 100% of all allowed claims, the duration will be shortened. I have heard of couple of rare exceptions where a plan ended early without pay 100% of unsecured claims, but nobody should count on that happening.

[spidge]

Also, the percentage changes as the plan progresses. I started out at 3% and am at 18 now. If my plan ended once the 18% of claims are paid I would be done early, but the trustee and attorney both state to focus on the plan base. I thought the comment Justbroke used to describe it as fluid is a good way to describe the payback percentage.

Unfortunate that we must complete the plan even though it looks like we may be done early. I was disappointed but did not get to excited in the first place as it looked to good to be true.

[naper]

Appologies for confusing % payback with % proof of claim, feel free to delete my post so it doesn't confuse others.

[justbroke]

Actually, the percent payback does not matter at all. While it may still be the case in some Districts, most Chapter 13 Model Plans that I have reviewed no longer include the language "percent payback" and only care about the total amount to unsecured creditors. That is because they have consistently found that this percentage is too fluid in non-100% cases. The % Payback neither refers, in any way, to the % of creditors that file a Proof of Claim (POC) nor the total values of the claims actually filed. The purpose of this thread was specifically to dispel the myth about the % Payback being the end-all-be-all.

Additionally, I have not read where Trustees want you to pay 100% of your DMI in a 100% case. It is really up to your attorney to work with you and determine whether you want to pay 100% DMI in a case where you need to pay 100% of your unsecured debt. Typically, you do this because you want to have your discharge earlier. Just because a few Trustees are still arguing (in 2013) over something that is pretty solid caselaw doesn't mean that all the Trustees are trying to make debtors that are required to pay 100% to pay 100% of DMI.

[naper]

This is an old sticky, but the latest threads seem to indicate that Trustees almost always want you to pay 100% DMI even if you are in a 100% plan and I wonder if that is still the case anymore.

http://www.ncbrc.org/blog/2014/01/08/debtor-need-not-commit-all-pdi-in-100-plan/

I saw the above article and I wonder if more people are fighting it these days, in my district my lawyer said that trustees never try to get 100% DMI in 100% plans. I'm in a 100% plan and I never had to worry about my finances in general, the trustee didn't care and my payment wasn't even close to 100% DMI, if it had been, I would have never been able to complete the plan.

To make things even better for me, it's looking like only 28% of my unsecured creditors filed a POC, so based on my calculations I will be done making payments 18 months after I started in a 60 month plan. In my case, the title of this thread couldn't be more wrong, because for me, the % POC is actually going to be life changing in a very positive way!

[justbroke]

I believe that Ohio is one of the states where it is 60 months from confirmation, not from when you started making payments. So, if Ohio is the one I'm thinking of, you could start "paying" (adequate protection) on Jan 1, 2000 and not get confirmed until Jan 1, 2001 and still need to pay through Jan 1, 2006.

Besides, if you are in a 100% plan and have not paid the entire 100%, then the Trustee is being nice without needing to go through a Plan modification.

[scht65]

My 5 years was just up in November (and I am coded as 100% payback in NDC) when I called the trustee she told me that I make too much money and my plan would continue until the balance is zero? This takes me until August of 2013. I told them I thought it was 60 payments, she replyed that they can dismiss my case or I could continue to make payments, my choice?

[justbroke]

Yes, that is accurate. The way we say it is "you must pay AT LEAST the value of your non-exempt assets to unsecured creditors". Your DMI almost always is greater... so it's the greater of your DMI or the value of your non-exempt assets.

[cz3ch]

I've posted another thread on this but I wanted to be clear.

In looking at my non-exempt equity I'll have about $6,000.00 total. My DMI will be about $1,000.00. It's my understanding that my plan must pay at least the value of my non-exempt equity or my DMI whichever is larger. I talked to my attorneys and they said my payment would be my DMI since it's the larger amount and they don't stack the non-exempt equity value on top of your DMI. Can anyone provide some feedback on this?

[wobbly]

Correct, there is no liquidation of assets in a chapter 13, (unless "you" want to give up the asset). For all-intents-and-purposes, the only asset of a chapter 13 is your NDI.

They made me give up a motorcycle and I really wanted to keep it. I drive an old car and the bike was my backup get to work deal. Kind of a necessity. It was really not an expensive bike. I think I owed like 3K on it and it was maybe worth 4K. They said it was a luxury.

[LadyInTheRed]

This is why it's so hard to swallow as to why they want to keep our tax refunds in addition.

Apparently, that is the way your plan was confirmed. The time to fight that would have been before confirmation. I suppose you could petition to amend the plan, but that will probably increase your attorney fees. As it is, your plan will end when all of your unsecured claims have been paid. If there is only $32,000 in unsecured claims, that is all that will be paid. Remember that the trustee gets a fee too. So your total amount paid to the plan will need to be more than $32k to pay 100%.

[alli]

I know my refunds aren't very large. Husband is self employed. As it turns out its a good thing I opened this can of worms because it got us looking at our account on ,line and basically it looks to us and our attny like their math is way off. we have a 5 yr plan and are supposed to pay back $32,000 to unsecured debt. we were ordered to pay 698.00 a month and have been doing so for 25 months so far which would mean we have a little less then three yrs to go. Problem is we've paid in over 17,000 so far so that would only leave 15,000 more to pay. Well if we do the math 36 mths remaining x $698 = another 25,128$...so that would put us at paying back $42,128. Also like I had mentioned before we are already paying back at 100%. This is why it's so hard to swallow as to why they want to keep our tax refunds in addition.

[LadyInTheRed]

Wait! Do not change your deductions without first asking your attorney if it's okay. Your plan payment was probably based on your withholdings as they existed at the date you filed. That is why you have to give all refunds to the trustee. If you want to keep a refund to pay for unexpected expenses that aren't covered in the budget, you should ask your attorney. You should not be contacting the trustee directly.

Also, it doesn't sound like your refunds are very large. Even if your attorney says it's okay, I'd be very careful about changing your deductions. You don't want to end up owing tax and not having the cash available to pay.

[alli]

WOW God bless you. 3400 is a whole lot of money monthly. I thought we had it bad at 698. Our debt started out with 60 thousand in unsecured cc debt but only about half of the creditors put in for the money so that is how we ended up paying at a 100% rate. Thanks for helping we have 3 more years unless we can pay it off early which I am praying for.

[bklawn]

I would raise your deductible up to 2 on fed, because all they won't is the fed returns. At the end of the year, do your taxes to break even or pay back $10 dollars. Just do not get anything back. That is a small amount to get back anyway. They will not look at that to much. I have too pay back 4000 a year cause they have my plan including the taxes I was paying at the time of filing because of the houses we had as a write off. So If I claim what 0, I will not have enough to make my payments. We pay 3400 a month back, for five years. We are in the third year, and counting. Never missed a payment yet. What ever you do, do not include any taxes you owe at the end of the year into the plan, the will pull new pay Stubbs and you will get the shaft. That is what we did one year. We owed like 4500 in taxes, so I included in to my payment plan. Guess what, they did the who plan back over again, and we are now paying double what we was paying, cause they said we was not paying enough into the plan from the beginning. We was paying 1600 a month. Just try to stay under the radar.. I would not make any changes if your pay has changed any, I mean increased. Now if your pay has decreased, go for it. They still going to get the money anyway. The plus to all this is we will strip our second, no more rental houses, no more debt. We had 400,000 in debt. No payments with 2009 cars. A house that will have equity in it instead of being 100,000 under water. So we have a lot to look forward too, we just have to make two more years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!