Have you ever had a trustee not approve the pymt your lawyer submits?

[indebt00]

yes...lots of questions from me tonight. but thanks for the info you guys....I have read 50 pages of the boards but it just doesn't absorb sometimes.

so....if you had a trustee adjust your payment...was it minimal or was it crazy???? thx !!!!!

[HHM]

The trustee ALWAYS objects to the initial plan submitted by anyone. However, so long as you don't have any wierd expenses, any change would be minimal or no change. It really just depends on the complexity of your situation.

[indebt00]

ok thanks

[lrprn]

Our trustee objected to two items in our plan - that we were actively contributing to our 401Ks while we were paying back six loans taken from my husband's retirement while we were trying to stay afloat, and we had a significant mismatch between what the Means Test showed as our disposable income and what our DMI was after Schedule I minus J. Because of the objections, our case was not confirmed at our confirmation hearing.

Because two and a half years ago both of these objections were gray areas in the then-new bk law, the trustee, our lawyer, and the judge wanted to use our 13 filing as a test case for both areas for our bk district.

The trustee and our lawyer both filed briefs justifying their legal positions on both issues. The bankruptcy judge in our local court set a court date, read both briefs, and then we had a court hearing on the set day with the two of us, our bankruptcy judge, the trustee, and our lawyer present in this tiny meeting room at the courthouse. Other than identifying ourselves, we didn't have to say a word the whole time - our lawyer handled everything.

The outcome - the judge ruled in our favor on the 401K contribution/401K loan payback issue but ruled in the trustee's favor on the mismatch between the Means Test and Schedules I&J. In the end, our monthly payment went up $150/month.

It took 15 months after filing until we were finally confirmed. Everything worked out fine in the end though.

[bcvw]

The outcome - the judge ruled in our favor on the 401K contribution/401K loan payback issue but ruled in the trustee's favor on the mismatch between the Means Test and Schedules I&J. In the end, our monthly payment went up $150/month.

lrprn, was the difference that the I&J showed less or more DMI than the Means Test DMI?

Our plan was rejected in part because our Means Test DMI(which we based our plan on) was almost $500 more than our I&J DMI. We are above median income.

[lrprn]

lrprn, was the difference that the I&J showed less or more DMI than the Means Test DMI?

Our plan was rejected in part because our Means Test DMI(which we based our plan on) was almost $500 more than our I&J DMI. We are above median income.

We were also above median income. In our case, our Means Test DMI was also more than our Schedule I minus J DMI because of the differences between our real expenses on the Schedules and the forced artificial required "expenses" on the Means Test.

There have been several case decisions across the country for this exact Ch 13 issue, and unfortunately they are split. Some courts go with the Means Test DMI, and some go with the Schedules I&J DMI to determine your monthly payment. Your lawyer should be able to tell you what to expect in your case.

Please understand that getting confirmed might happen quickly, but also could take some time if your trustee isn't willing to compromise or if your lawyer is going to challenge the previous case decision in your bk district.

The court moves at its own very SLOW pace, so if your confirmation is delayed, put your patience hat on and hang on. There's NOTHING you can do to speed the process up yourself, so don't get anxious - just keep making your monthly payments on time each and every month. That's the most important thing you can do.

Keep communicating with your attorney periodically to get an update on any progress. Also pull up PACER once a week to see if anything new has been posted. This gives you some sense of control finding out yourself what's being filed with court by your trustee and your lawyer until your confirmation finally happens (and it will).

[MajorMike]

The trustee ALWAYS objects to the initial plan submitted by anyone. However, so long as you don't have any wierd expenses, any change would be minimal or no change. It really just depends on the complexity of your situation.

HHM that is not true!!!! Our trustee did NOT object at all...

[MajorMike]

So, I guess you can't say, "ALWAYS"

[eddiep]

lrprn
15 months!? Did that delay your pay back period (put you on hold) or were you making payments all that time?

[HHM]

HHM that is not true!!!! Our trustee did NOT object at all...

Ok, but if the Trustee didn't object, that means you left money on the table ... sorry to say. The chapter 13 plan is a negotiation like anything else, if you don't get an objection, then that means you probably you could have done better.

[MajorMike]

No it doesnt HHM...because the Trustee even questioned me right then and there and said...are you sure this is enough to fund the BK..it seems as if you'll be tight..I said..No, I think it's fine and I will cut my food budget if I have to...he said...ok, I'll approve but I still think it'll be tight. and he proceeded. ALL of the BK's that day were in and out...and confirmed together...no objections. Trust me, he even went over my money in vs. what I needed to pay and kept saying...it seems tight. Our trustee doesn't require tax returns, bank statements or anything..confirmed THAT day..
It's different in every district...~

[optimistic1]

I hope the trustee I get is alot like yours MajorMike.

[justbroke]

I think HHM was saying, that even at the "table" the Trustee will indicate that they may not think something is right. The conversation about being enough to fund is a verbal objection, to which you satisfied the Trustee.

While I had no Objection resulting in a hearing, the Trustee told me at the table, he thought that I was not contributing enough to the plan. I told him that I was. We later "fixed" it during the confirmation hearing in a back room. No Objection, but it was mentioned. My "fix" was just how I had spread the payments, not that I wasn't contributing enough.

No one really wants to go to a hearing over an Objection. Trustees actually attempt to work with the lawyers (and even we lowly pro se filers) without having to do so in open court. If the parties can't agree, then you get the official hearing on the Objection.

I guess I can say that I had no Objection. The reality though, is that there was a verbal objection.

[lrprn]

lrprn 15 months!? Did that delay your pay back period (put you on hold) or were you making payments all that time?

We kept making payments the entire time at the payment level we first submitted in June 2006. When our case was finally confirmed, the extra we would have paid for the 15 months was pro-rated through our remaining 45 months - that added up to an extra $150/month over our original proposed payment. We've been making that increased payment since confirmation.

[HHM]

No it doesnt HHM...because the Trustee even questioned me right then and there and said...are you sure this is enough to fund the BK..it seems as if you'll be tight..I said..No, I think it's fine and I will cut my food budget if I have to...he said...ok, I'll approve but I still think it'll be tight. and he proceeded. ALL of the BK's that day were in and out...and confirmed together...no objections. Trust me, he even went over my money in vs. what I needed to pay and kept saying...it seems tight. Our trustee doesn't require tax returns, bank statements or anything..confirmed THAT day..
It's different in every district...~

That is kind of the point, the trustee was saying you had "too generous" a plan. If you don't craft a plan that at least illicits some sort of objection (formal or informal), odds are, you are paying more than you need too. I am sorry if that is not what you want to hear, but it is reality.