Thought I had a no asset 7, but was recommended 13. Lot of questions.

[jadams]

I believe the insider issues are only in regards to repayment of debt, or giving assets below fair value. Since it sold for fair value, the only issue I see is properly accounting for the $8,000 so it's considered exempt (or properly spent, if you already spent it). Right off the top you can figure your attorney's fees.

So in your case instead of the car being property of the estate, there's this mystical $8,000 that is property of the estate -- and you need to be able to explain/exempt where it went.

Worst case? Like the others said, let the trustee go after it.

Am I the only one really bothered by the statement that the attorney wanted your father to sign to agree to make the plan payment for you???

Waahh? It's not his BK. It's not his payment plan. It's not his debt. Where the heck would he get this magical idea that your father can be contracted to pay it for you in a BK proceeding??

That seems so illogical to me that I must be missing something. I can't see how a lawyer would say that.

[woeisme]

Ok, here's the problem, as I see it. You just sold the car 2 months ago. (April 09 from your post). Where is the $8000? I know you said you spent it, but that's not how a CH 7 trustee is going to see things. The trustee will be thinking that you had this $8000 non-exempt asset that the CH 7 estate could have had, and you went and sold it and are hiding the $ now instead of allowing the BK estate to have it.

How to get around this? WAIT! If the car was sold at fair market value, the only issue is the timing of selling the car and filing the CH 7 BK. The timing looks like you knew you were filing and wanted to liquidate your assets before filing so that you could hide the money from the trustee and be "no asset". So what do you do? WAIT!!!

You just play the waiting game until it seems a lot more reasonable that the $8000 got spent on normal living expenses, not that you went on a $4000/month spending bonanza, and then file Ch 7. Doesn't sound like something to get so frustrated about, just chill and relax for a while, let the recent sale of the car become less and less of an issue.

[LuciluS]

1. OP is living at home with father who has Severe COPD & basically is his Caretaker. Sister lives right next door and provides No Help. OP wants out of this toxic relationship.

2. I've followed OP's posting. Not relevant why though. OP is not only struggling financially, but mentally too.

3. OP continues to have communication with Ex-girlfriend and is possible, in his state of mind, his only way out of Toxic Relationship as caretaker to his Father. He stated yesterday he has been invited back to his Exs' house.

4. OP paid an Attorney $300 in cash as Judgement filed (I think) for a Chapter 7.

5. OP posted this week above Attorney in process of moving & clerk told him she had no record of his account. Original Judgement in this Attorney's files. Everyone, except me, on CH. 7 forum told him to find another Attorney. OP visited with Attorney next day & explained all monies are in Trust Fund & will/can be accounted for. In other words, his clerk screwed up in telling him. OP initials new papers. OP, on advice from 7 forum, visits his 4th, 5th or 6th Free Consult and it is first consult to mention a 13 filing Now!

6. OP, at this time, is unable to fully understand filing bankruptcy is a Financial Decision as he is emotionally unstable due to Toxic Relationship.

I sent him a PM and told him he could not file Ch. 13 & reasons why. However, an Attorney tells him he can. I, told him, this Atty. says 13 for bigger $$. Who holds more weight? Me (Us) or the Attorney? Easy answer.

File chapter 7, now, & Screw ex-girlfriend - No Way!

Do you blame him? I Pray not!


Luci

[justbroke]

Given the above, I'd be done with lawyers too. Probably why I hate mine.

[tinfoilhat]

No one here is a lawyer so I see no need to reply specifically.

Luci has a good idea of my situation, thanks for letting others know. Thanks for everything.
I'm going to log off. I only logged back in to address some misinformation above but screw it that person is nothing.
Bottom line is I'm a ****ing idiot getting screwed by people who claim are helping while getting screwed by my family by putting me in the situation I'm in, my life sucks, I'm an *******, etc. **** me.
I'm logging out, bye.

[catleg]

I'm sorry for your pain. We are all suffering here to a greater or lesser degree. Just trying to help you from getting ripped off by the lawyers. Good luck and good health. You'll survive this and better days are ahead.

[tinfoilhat]

Heres the problem, I'm mad at myself.

I consulted with this guy. I told him I'm here to start the process for a chapter 7 bankruptcy.
I was interviewed, I've read a lot about chapter 7. I thought chapter 7 was my only choice, now he brings up chapter 13. I never considered it and never read up on it because I know I don't qualify. So I never read up on it, I thought maybe I missed something and do qualify.
Not only that I DO NOT want to pay the full balance of my total debt, (of course I'd like to) I CANNOT PAY IT RIGHT NOW. I CANNOT make a payment plan, I told the secretary who had me do the paperwork that I AM NOT, and CAN'T do anything that involves payments.

I guess lawyers have a sales pitch too, because "everything will be fine, they won't even look at your assets if you do a 13" and for $100 a month I thought it was a good plan so I paid him $1500 with a check.

I got the forms and a card from Consumer Credit Counseling Services, which I guess is the means test? I completed it, a copy of it gets sent to the lawyer. The result or whatever was -$910

As for the $8000....I have every reciept in a folder, I opened up a new bank account and put it all in. And yes I did go on a spending bonanza, just like I would have if I WAS NOT in debt. I spent $1900 at the dentist, $325 at the eye doctor, food, clothes, groceries. I have every reciept down to $1.55

It's been ten years since I've been to the dentist, four since the eye doctor. Thats too long. Want to see pics of my old underwear and socks? Yea I went all out at wal mart. Underwear, socks, three pair of pants, two tee shirts, I mail ordered some shoes. I have $1980 in the bank from that $8000.

The good news is that I'm $7500 less in debt than I thought, it's $53,000.
Bad news is that I'm an incompetent SOB. (I'm a damn good HVAC/R tech turned home health care provider/housekeeper.)

So far I paid $600 to have an attorney answer a summons. (write a letter I know)
I paid $300 to hold one as a retainer (the one who lost my file)
And to top it all off I paid the most insane one $1500, for what I feel is going to be nothing.

My only question is: Can I walk away from this? I don't think I HAVE TO file now do I?
And if I can, at what point should I? I'd like to hear this guy out, I called and asked the secretary why he's having me do a 13 when I have no income. She said she'd ask and call back.

I'd like to hear the plan and walk away. I already know I'm not getting my money back, and before anyone asks, yes, the check was deposited and he has my money.

The paperwork/reciept does say no refunds, but it's also for "professional services rendered in connection with chapter 13"

Is there any chance I could get my money back since I paid for something I do not qualify for?

[lrprn]

The paperwork/reciept does say no refunds, but it's also for "professional services rendered in connection with chapter 13"

Is there any chance I could get my money back since I paid for something I do not qualify for?

The lawyer works for you, not the other way around. First ask for your money back - this lawyer is one to steer clear from. He'll charge you for whatever he's done so far - just be sure to get a detailed charge that lists every single thing he's charging you for. If all he's done is run the Means Test, then you should get most of your money back.

If he balks, then tell him that you regret it but you will have to report him to the association or agency in your state for legal misconduct - http://www.abanet.org/cpr/regulation/directory.pdf and http://research.lawyers.com/Reportin...iolations.html . Any lawyer with a lick of sense knows you can't file a Ch 13 plan with no income. And any lawyer with a lick of sense does NOT want his legal associations and colleagues to know he just advised a bk client to do something that every one of them knows is not possible to do.

Give yourself a break. None of us is perfect. The key is to learn from your mistakes and move on all the wiser to not make the same mistake again.

Interview at least 3-4 bk lawyers. Wait a month or two more before filing to put some distance between the car sale and filing. If you can't wait, then file your 7 and let your ex deal with the potential consequences if your trustee goes after the car (not a certainty, just a possibility).

[tinfoilhat]

Thanks for the links. I think monday I may call the florida bar and tell them whatever comes to mind at the moment (thats about how my brain works these days).
Then contact this guy (by walking in the office) and calmly inform him that I know I can't file 13 with no income and since his paper work says I paid for a service I cannot possibly, or legally (I guess) use. I want my money refunded.

If theres a disagreement I'll use the information from talking to the florida state bar to convince him that I'm serious.

Any pointers on exactly how else I can handle this?

[BnkrptcyLwyr]

Go see another attorney. The only reason that the attorney is doing this is to get paid ... and you'll be charged more in a Ch 13.

Of course, if you have no money ... getting an attorney to even do a Ch 7 is going to be tough to begin with.

As others have mentioned, don't worry about the car ... a girlfriend is not an insider, and you received value for it. Sounds ok to me.

[tinfoilhat]

Any lawyer with a lick of sense knows you can't file a Ch 13 plan with no income. And any lawyer with a lick of sense does NOT want his legal associations and colleagues to know he just advised a bk client to do something that every one of them knows is not possible to do.

I called the florida bar and they said it is possible in some cases to file a 13 with no income. Don't tell me they're incompetent idiots too. I mean their information is as correct as I'm going to find isn't it?

Interview at least 3-4 bk lawyers. Wait a month or two more before filing to put some distance between the car sale and filing. If you can't wait, then file your 7 and let your ex deal with the potential consequences if your trustee goes after the car (not a certainty, just a possibility).

How in the world can a trustee go after a car that was sold for fair market value? Or better yet why? It was my car and it was paid for with cash in 2004.
Have you ever heard of someone buying an 7 year old car, private sale, cash, and getting sued over it or having it repossessed?
What if she sold it?
What if I sold it to a dealer?
I know....they'd come to me.

Seems like every answer I get is either bs, doesn't make sense or is talk to 20 lawyers.
EVERYONE, lawyers, here, all have a different opinion. At some point I'm just going to have to say screw it and go with one person. At the rate I'm going NO ONE is going to be approved 100% by this forum, no two lawyers are going to have near the same plan.

I'm just going to dive in and hope the waters deep enough. If it's not I guess I'll suffer the consequences.

[justbroke]

tinfoilhat, I understand your frustration. Perhaps your particular case is unique and everyone who responds is just "guessing" as to what may be possible. At this point, I won't add to the hordes of information, misinformation, conjecture and other recommendations. You're probably right in that you'll just have to test the waters. Not all bankruptcies are cookie-cutter, yet many attorneys try to make them so. And, certainly on this site, many people have opinions based upon how their particular bankruptcy went or how they understand it to work.

Best of luck to you in trying to find your fresh start.

[tinfoilhat]

tinfoilhat, I understand your frustration.

Best of luck to you in trying to find your fresh start.

I appreciate you ignoring my negativity and providing kind words. It does help.
I can't help but to let my frustration out sometimes.
Thanks to everyone else too.