High trustee payment?

[momofthree]

No I meant Secured credit. This is mostly what decides what your payment will be because you have to pay all of it back within 5years/60months. Unless you turn in a car or what ever secure credit it is.

$2800 payment would equal $168000.

I'm confused. What "mostly decides your payment" isn't your secured debt. What decides your payment is your DMI. Plain and simple. You can have zero secured debt and still have a $3000 monthly payment because that's what your dmi is. Most filers who have zero dmi file ch.7, not chapter 13, but in the cases where the filer has zero dmi and chooses a chapter 13 anyway (like us, for example), then they have to create a budget that shows dmi and make it work, but that's not common at all.

[enginegirl]

Ok... so that means the trustee can't use a one time, it's never going to happen again bonus my wife got this past year to compute her projected disposable income? Am I understanding that right?

according to the ruling they cant use it!

[artgood]

Ok... so that means the trustee can't use a one time, it's never going to happen again bonus my wife got this past year to compute her projected disposable income? Am I understanding that right?

[enginegirl]

Did you see this new ruling posted ??My atty used this to reduce payment from $1000 per month to $500.00

GREAT NEWS FOR CHAPTER 13 DEBTORS, U.S. Supreme Court
The US Supreme Court upheld the ruling out of the 10th circuit of In Re Lanning

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-998.pdf

Hamilton v. Lanning 08-998

The Supreme Court has adopted the Forward looking approach for determining disposable income for the chapter 13 plan payment. In a nutshell, no more stupid objections from Chapter 13 trustees if you have a bonus, severance, or other 1 time income event in your prior 6 month look back that eschews your monthly payment calculation. Chapter 13's are to be based on a common sense understanding of "projected" disposable income.

[Guest123]

Do you mean UNsecured credit? You have to pay back all secured credit unless you surrender the collateral.

No I meant Secured credit. This is mostly what decides what your payment will be because you have to pay all of it back within 5years/60months. Unless you turn in a car or what ever secure credit it is.

$2800 payment would equal $168000.

[jcj112562]

Another reason that one might file for Ch13 and pay 100% of all secured and non-secured debt would be if there are several one-time events (or one really big, nasty one-time event with hairy teeth and assorted ancillary debt-generating things), and you look at your money and say.."Gee, with that lawyer fee, and this property settlement, and this lawsuit pending, for the next 14 months, I will have income that is about 1200 bucks less than my bills." Rather than listen to the collectors, and let stuff get late, repos, foreclosures, etc., you file for Ch13, make a decent plan, and pay off what you owe. I know it is not what the majority do, all I know is it worked out reasonably well for me.

John

[momofthree]

From what I have seen the payment is dertermined by how much secured credit, lawyer fee and trustee fee you have to pay back. Rarely does anyone payback 100% according to a few people and lawyers I have talked to.

We didn't qualify for a chapter7 either and only qualified for a chapter13 if we added our yearly overtime in. Our secured credit was $60k plus fees and a $500 monthly payment wouldn't even pay off half of that. In Arizona cars are included in the plan if you are financing them.

I would talk to other lawyers.

Do you mean UNsecured credit? You have to pay back all secured credit unless you surrender the collateral.

[Guest123]

From what I have seen the payment is dertermined by how much secured credit, lawyer fee and trustee fee you have to pay back. Rarely does anyone payback 100% according to a few people and lawyers I have talked to.

We didn't qualify for a chapter7 either and only qualified for a chapter13 if we added our yearly overtime in. Our secured credit was $60k plus fees and a $500 monthly payment wouldn't even pay off half of that. In Arizona cars are included in the plan if you are financing them.

I would talk to other lawyers.

[LadyInTheRed]

My wife and I are looking into 13 as well, we have rental properties that the mortgages have gone through the roof due to new taxes. So, I'm confused, if you are paying 100% back, then why not just work out another plan with the debtors instead of filing 13? Isn't filing 13 supposed to eliminate some of the debt?

If you have a $20,000 balance on a credit card and file bankruptcy, interest would stop accruing on the date of filing. 60 monthly payments of $333.33 (plus attorney and trustee fees) will pay off that balance. At a 19% interest rate, you'd have to pay $518.81 a month to pay off the balance in 60 months. If you paid $333.33 on that balance at 19%, it would take 191 months to pay it off. Many people are paying rates higher than 19% and have much hire balances. Banks don't tend to do much to work with you unless you have cash to pay a lump sum.

This is only one example of why somebody would file a Chap 13 with a 100% plan. There are others.

[rjd78]

Good grief. $2800 per month?? I'd seek out another attorney. Pronto.

[Logan08]

My wife and I are looking into 13 as well, we have rental properties that the mortgages have gone through the roof due to new taxes. So, I'm confused, if you are paying 100% back, then why not just work out another plan with the debtors instead of filing 13? Isn't filing 13 supposed to eliminate some of the debt?

[kornellred]

There is no big mystery about figuring out disposable monthly income. The numbers that you plug into the schedules need to be accurate, and then mathematics does the rest. Arrival at accurate numbers is the sticking point when income and expenses are not fixed (relatively speaking).

Your plan payment will be the mathematically derived DMI figure, modified by allowances negotiated by your attorney and approved by the Court. It's as simple as that. If there is any way that a plan payment even closely approximates an amount whereby all creditors would be paid in full, then you should not even be thinking about bankruptcy.

[Pandora]

We are in AZ and make to much for a 7, so we've met with an Attorney and according to their numbers, we'll have a monthly payment of about $2800. When we crunch the numbers we do not see a DMI in which we call pull this off, especially for 60 months.

In our initial meeting, looking over paystubs both my wife and I had been getting a lot of overtime (we're both in healhcare) we are not getting any now, and my monthly income has dropped by about $800 per month, my wife's by close to $1000.We met with him again, re-crunched the numbers and were still at $2500 per month. We're baffled here, we are not stupid people, we just don't see it.

B

Have you done both the means test and completed all your schedules to come up with your DMI of what the attorney is proposing? Seems awfully high to me - if income doesnt support it then you need to sit down and do a line for line with your attorney before papers are filed. I'd also question your attorney's actions to not wanting to modify a plan - you're in a 13 for 36-60 months, there are bound to be situations where a plan modification may happen. Thats what you pay your attorney for, to see you through the entire plan including any changes that must be made until you complete your plan.

If you dont see eye to eye with him/her - then its not going to get any easier once you're in your plan either. If you havent filled out the schedules yet and your attorney is just going off of your 6 month income - I'd be worried. Of course, if you can wait to file so you can get out of the previous income amounts prior to your salaries dropping, I would.

Remember you need to include everything you pay for during the course of the year in your schedule, with 6 people in your family you get pretty high IRS standards.

[LaurieM]

When income fluctates seasonally, we propose plans whereby during the typically lower O/T months, the plan payment is one amount versus a higher payment in the higher O/T months. I hate doing 13's when people aren't on salary lol.

[minan]

All, my payment is 2800+ to the Trustee so I know how you feel. I'm single so I can't claim dependents etc..I'm basically living the bare bones in terms of living expenses. I'm looking for a second job so long as my income doesn't go over 10% above what I make now, my atty told me the trustee will not touch the extra income. I am hosed because I filed 13 to deal with tax issues from when I had my own business. It's the only option I had left because they had already issued 2 levies against me and probably would have eventually put a lien on my condo. It's going to be hard, however I'm willing to get a second job so I have just enough to make it through.

If you haven't met other attys, definitely get more consults. Also check your numbers on the means test, and all paperwork. My atty made a mistake on mine and the original payment was over 3000+/monthly. It wasn't until I reviewed the paperwork because my gut was telling me something was off and there was no way I should have a 3000 plus payment. Read the posts on this forum. This forum has been a wealth of info.