Aggravated and Stressed!!

[kakdbass]

Shortly after filing C-13 the transmission started acting up in my car (paid off, not in plan). Replacing the tranny would cost more than the vehicle is worth and is becoming a money pit. I was told by the attorney's paralegal that we would have to wait to be confirmed before sending a motion to incur debt request to trustee. We were confirmed in late Nov., went to a car dealer, obtained preapproval and the finance mgr sent an 'invoice' to the paralegal with proposed amount, interest, term of loan, etc. to be submitted to the trustee. Today I get an email saying that our request would be denied because we haven't reached our bar date and that our payment would go up nearly $400 (i'm assuming because the new loan would be included) therefore she wasn't going to submit to the trustee. She also said that all of our creditors would have the opportunity to object to us acquiring a car loan and that this could take months for any objections to be resolved if there were any. Has anyone else dealt with this? I thought any debt acquired after confirmation was paid outside the plan. I'm beyond stressed. We're down to one vehicle and my husband takes it out of town for work. It also has a ton of miles. For months, I've had no way to transport our children and if I had an emergency while he was away I would be screwed. Sorry this is a big venting opportunity for me, but I feel helpless and extremely aggravated by all the contradicting information I am getting from the paralegal. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[mountanddo]

Well think of it this way. Your old car was paid off and not in your plan. You want to incur new debt of $400. If you can afford to pay a car note of $400 how come this money wasn't part of your DMI? You are not allowed to incur any debt while you are in a Chapter 13. Your creditors are able to object because if you can find $400 for a car they want their money first.

It sucks because your circumstances changed but the asset that went belly up you weren't paying on. If you had been paying $400 already for a car and just had to trade that for another car payment of $400 you would of been ok.

[kakdbass]

We are in a 100% payoff to all creditors so why would they object?

[mountanddo]

I didn't have that information and I hate going back to read prior posts about someone's situation so I'll amend my post.

I have no idea! LOL

[kakdbass]

I know it's a big mess! And I did fail to mention the 100% payoff. I'm just so aggravated with my attorney, which has completely abandoned us, and the paralegal who is just a big smart butt. In the email she said you should just use the portion of your tax refund that your allowed to keep to purchase a cheap car. Well, if I wanted a piece of crap car that I had to put money into I would just fix my old car! And regarding the tax refund she told us in the past we would be able to keep it all because we were in a 100 percent pay back. ARGHHHHH!! Sorry this has turned into a big vent session!

[mountanddo]

Now I'm confused but maybe because you are in a chapter 13 and not accruing any interest or penalties even if you are in a 100% plan that they won't allow you any new credit. After all, if you hadn't filed chapter 13 you would be paying that interest/penalties.

I have a 15 year old car. Everytime something happens to it I think about getting a new one. My reasoning is that the repairs are more than the car is worth. When you think about it though even if the repairs cost say 2k that is only 5 months of your $400 payment. No increase insurance costs, no payment, and then who knows if that car breaks you will then have the repairs AND the payment. I've never had to spend over $1000 on a car repair. That's only 2 1/2 months payments if I got a new one and my note was $400/month. I don't know what the transmission would cost to fix but is it possible to just suck up the repair cost and wait until you are discharged to purchase something different? I know it sucks to alway's worry about something breaking but in reality that could happen if you bought something different as well.

[andy158]

We have a 2004 Chevy that is being paid in the plan (cram down). It currently has 170k miles on it. We had to borrow from my 401k to replace the transmission this past summer (had to get approval to do so). Vehicles are a money pit wether new or not so used and with a monthly payment you still need maintenance, tires, usually higher insurance and taxes on a newer vehicle. New cars depriciate drastically the minute you drive it off the lot because it is now a "used" vehicle. You never recoup the money you put into a new car. If the car is paid for your are ahead repairing it. Even with high miles there are only a so many things that can go wrong with it. When we are discharged we will never go into debt for a vehicle again. I can't vision a 400+/month car payment!

[kakdbass]

Thanks for your opinion, but with my husband being gone for months at a time a newer car is the best option for us. Granted we will have a payment, but new cars come with warranties. Routine maintenance is a given. We have been able to put back a little more due to our atty/paralegal/whoever's running the show dragging their feet so the payment will be substantially less than $400. Plus, anything we are allowed to keep from our tax refund will also be applied if this drags out that long. $400 was just a high estimate to begin with considering the finance company will only do so much until they get trustee's approval. You wouldn't buy a new car. I wouldn't touch my 401k. To each his own.

[lillymarlene]

So much can happen to cars! My car still needs rear brakes, and now I have this awful "check engine light" that keeps coming on every so often. I sometimes just hold my breath, that I don't get stuck somewhere. I would like to just sell it, and share my boyfriend's vehicle. Of course I can't, probably would be like waving a red flag to my trustee and the creditors, that here is some extra money for the taking!

[LadyInTheRed]

So much can happen to cars! My car still needs rear brakes, and now I have this awful "check engine light" that keeps coming on every so often. I sometimes just hold my breath, that I don't get stuck somewhere. I would like to just sell it, and share my boyfriend's vehicle. Of course I can't, probably would be like waving a red flag to my trustee and the creditors, that here is some extra money for the taking!

11 USC § 1327(b) states:

Except as otherwise provided in the plan or the order confirming the plan, the confirmation of a plan vests all of the property of the estate in the debtor.

So, unless your plan or confirmation order says otherwise, you can probably sell your car without involving the trustee at all. Check with your attorney.

[andy158]

I have bought and sold two vehciles while in our 13 with no problems. They were for my youngest son, titled in my name and did not involve our attorney or trustee. No large sums of money were involved (under $1,500) and I was replacing one vehicle with another.

The vehicles were not part of our plan and no where in our confirmation is there anything about selling assets not included in the plan.

[momofthree]

Always check your confirmation order before selling assets! Our confirmation order specifically states that we must get TT permission to sell any asset valued at over $500. It took about 30 days to get tt permission to sell our truck, but it was approved without any problems.

[andy158]

So much can happen to cars! My car still needs rear brakes, and now I have this awful "check engine light" that keeps coming on every so often.

The Check Engine light is usually an indicator of a problem in your emission system. Unless it is flashing or the engine is running very bad, you can dirive the car safely. It is usually indicative of a sensor going bad or even a loose gas cap. Minor problems that do not need addressed immediately. I have a 1999 Ford Escort that had the check engine light on for the last 5 years. Runs just fine and fuel enconomy has not been bad. For your own satisfaction you can take your car to any local auto parts chain and they can read the code and tell if it is a critical issue for no charge.

[lillymarlene]

Thanks, for the replies. I'm really not trying to hijack the OP's post, but my situation almost looks as bad as trying to incur new debt. I just looked at my confirmation order, and unfortunately it states: the debtor shall not transfer, sell, or otherwise alienate property of the estate other than in accordance with the confirmed plan or other order of the bankruptcy court... Maybe I'll ask my attorney if there is any way around that.

I'd like to sell it just to put a little bit of money aside for emergencies. My boyfriend may also be able to get his mother's old car.

Andy, thanks for the post about taking my car to an autoparts chain to check out the light problem. As far as my "yellow light" goes, it seems I drive for awhile with that light off, then all the sudden it comes on and flashes. This lasts for about 10 minutes, and the car feels like it's about to stall. Then the light flicks off, and the car returns to "normal" like it never happened. I'm so afraid I'll end up getting stuck someplace.

[shark66]

Plus, anything we are allowed to keep from our tax refund will also be applied if this drags out that long.

Why not just use the tax refund to fix the trans? Unless you own a Bentley, that should be doable...I'll likely be doing the same thing this year...

Good luck to us all.