case confirmed! nothing about tax refund on confirmation order?

[itlm062]

filed in august 2011, finally got confirmed yesterday.

looking at the confirmation order on pacer, i didn't see anything about turning over any tax refunds...should that have been there as a standard thing?

not that i am expecting any refund, but every little bit would help : )

[kornellred]

Handing over tax refunds to the trustee is definitely not a "standard" procedure in Chapter 13. It may be for particular trustees, but the only standards that Chapter 13 trustees abide are the ones specified by law. If it is not ordered by the judge in your confirmation document, that means it was not specified by the trustee, and you are under no obligation to surrender your tax refund.

Someone from California might chime in and give you some information on the tax refund issue in Chapter 13, but there must be more than a few trustees in that huge state and they all do business differently. That's one of the more perplexing realities in Chapter 13 - the freedom that the trustees have to do as they see fit.

[Flamingo]

Before your surmise anything, check with your Chapter 13 attorney as to your tax refund since you filed in 2011 and also check what you should do as to any future tax refunds during your plan. Best of luck to you.

[itlm062]

attorney said as long as the refund is not over 5k or so, trustee wont' even bother.
she did say that if i have any refund, it will be slower to get them back than usual since irs will let the trustee know first, then if no action taken, i then get the refund.

thanks guys!

[dunno]

May I recommend that you send a portion to your plan?
UT required anything over $1000, but that helped us pay off our plan early. A half a year early! (after 3 years of surplus taxes, due to IRS rep scaring us about having future IRS shortfalls!)

[LadyInTheRed]

May I recommend that you send a portion to your plan?

Somebody in a 100% plan may want to do that to finish their plan early. But, they would be taking a risk. If they later have a decrease in income that results in a plan modification where the payoff to unsecured creditors drops below 100%, they threw away money by paying more than required. It would be better to put the money in savings. You can still get out of the plan early when you save enough for a 100% payoff. But, I still think I'd rather keep the savings and stick with the original plan.

[krisinbe]

I asked my atty about paying off our Ch13 early and he said no. That the trustee would think we could afford more a month then. Does it depend on what state you file?

[LadyInTheRed]

I asked my atty about paying off our Ch13 early and he said no. That the trustee would think we could afford more a month then. Does it depend on what state you file?

It depends on whether you are paying 100% of unsecured claims. If you don't pay 100% of unsecured claims, you can't pay off the plan early.

[krisinbe]

How do I know if it's 100%? According to the claims on 13datacenter it says claims 100% but I'm not actually paying back that much. Does this make sense? lol 3 year plan at less than $300 a month

[walkthaplank]

My experience in the California Central District is that it is in the boilerplate of disposable income that you pledge all future tax returns during the life of your plan towards your 13 plan. Your mileage may vary, but the trustees here consider that disposable income (clearly you didn't need it right??), I have had to submit all refunds regardless of amount to our trustee.

[kornellred]

krisinbe -in all probability in your case, the 100 percent figure indicates that 100 percent of the plan base amount will go to unsecured creditors, minus trustee fees and attorney fees (if any). In some cases, debtors with adequate DMI are able to afford to pay back 100 percent of the money they owe to unsecured creditors. These are two separate issues, and often lead to confusion with debtors who are unfamiliar with this situation.
My own Chapter 13 plan indicates 100 percent of the plan base amount goes to unsecured creditors, but the total they will receive will amount to less than 25% of the total amount I owed when I filed.

Read HHM's "sticky" entitled "% payback (it doesn't matter).

[LadyInTheRed]

How do I know if it's 100%? According to the claims on 13datacenter it says claims 100% but I'm not actually paying back that much. Does this make sense? lol 3 year plan at less than $300 a month

13datacenter is not the right place to look. It also shows on my plan that 100% of every claim is being paid when less than 1% of unsecured claims are being paid. Only my car is being paid 100%. So, unsecured creditors aren't getting 100% of their claims paid or 100% of my plan base.

My plan included an estimate of the percentage to be paid to unsecured creditors and that percentage was included in the order confirming the plan. Your plan and confirmation order may also contain the figure. But, as already pointed out, that figure is meaningless. All disposable income goes to the plan. Secured claims get paid first, priority unsecured claims get paid next and non-priority unsecured claims get what's left. When you file your petition, you don't know whether all creditors will file claims. During your plan, your disposable income may change. You don't really know what percentage the unsecured creditors get until you complete your plan.