Just filed ch13, ordered to sell my cars, WTF do I do now???

[sammych13]

For reasons beyond my control, like laid off, I struggled for 4 years until I had no more money. So Ch13 here I come. It pains me to have to even write this. So my great attorney with his superb legal advice tells me I might want to go buy a new car as my current ride is old high millage and I can't buy anything on credit for 5 years now. So I buy the cheapest car I can find.

Well, the court says that's fine, but you need to sell the other cars you listed as junk. Okay, that's fine, I understand.

So here is my question, there was no time limit on when I had to sell the cars (two). So am in no hurry. The ch13 was confirmed and payments will now go to the Nazi trustee. Ok, fine there two, but suppose, just suppose for the sake of argument, I wanted to keep one of my junk vehicles. Can I just pay the trustee the going rate for the junker? Or suppose, just suppose I say sold it to a friend for the junker rate. Sent to money to the Nazi trustee. Could I say a few months later just but it back from the person I sold it to without a red flag etc?.

Had I known this might happened, I would have not purchased a new car, I like my old ones and own them out right. Yeah its just two junkers but I wanted to keep them and fix them up. Both vehicles combined might yield 5-6k. In a good market, running etc, say 15-18k.

Honestly, any real advise is much needed. I've been sick over this for days now. Thank you and thank you for this forum!!!

[LadyInTheRed]

Welcome to BKforum!

It does not make sense that the court would order you to sell property in a Chap 13. Were you not able to exempt the cars? If not, were you unable to show enough disposible income to pay your unsecured creditors at least $5-6K during the life of your plan?

Normally, you can buy whatever you want in a Chap 13 as long as you don't incur debt to do so. But, if the court ordered you to sell the car, you need to ask your attorney whether you can buy it back later.

[despritfreya]

My guess is that OP was not willing to increase Plan funding to cover the non-exempt value of the “junkers” which OP admits have a value of no less than $5k and maybe as much as $18k. If such happened the Court (not the trustee) was correct in ordering the eventual sale of the assets for the benefit of the creditors. The Court, however, was wrong in not requiring the immediate sale since the vehicles, unless they are “classics” are depreciating in value every month to the detriment of the unsecured creditors.

At this point OP is under a Court Order to sell the vehicles. OP cannot simply pay the Trustee the “going rate for the junker” unless the Court Order is amended. Further, if OP “sells” the vehicles to his friend for less than fair value he will most likely be perpetrating a fraud on the Court and will get caught. If he sells the vehicles to his friend for fair value he must turn over every dime to the Trustee. If, at some point down the road, he wishes to repurchase the vehicles so be it, but that “down the road” needs to be after his case is over.

And. . . my guess is that the Order Confirming requires the sale to be approved by the Court under a “363 Motion”, unless the sale guarantees a specific price. Could be wrong on that but that is what I would require if I was the Judge.

Des.

[AngelinaCat]

And my guess is that OP has already had some problems with the BK process. The fact that OP refers to the trustee as the 'Nazi trustee' shows a certain negative attitude...

[dmc-2008]

Yea AngelinaCat, I felt that too. Hope it is not my trustee, but so far I haven't heard a word from them. Next year I might, but I still don't consider them nazis! ;-)

[AngelinaCat]

Yea AngelinaCat, I felt that too. Hope it is not my trustee, but so far I haven't heard a word from them. Next year I might, but I still don't consider them nazis! ;-)

Exactly! As ignorant as we were in the BK process, and the penalties we had to pay because of that ignorance, we never thought of our trustee as a Nazi. In fact, our trustee was actually very tolerant of our situation. He could have dismissed out case. Instead, he worked with us.

[sammych13]

Yea AngelinaCat, I felt that too. Hope it is not my trustee, but so far I haven't heard a word from them. Next year I might, but I still don't consider them nazis! ;-)

I'm clearly not in love with the court or the trustee, I guess that's just me. The trustee made an argument wanting the junkers sold for what ever he could get. Gimme a break, really it was more of a way to punish me for going out and buying a new car prior to the filing. He could have just moved on but he made a big deal with an inference that I purposely was cheating my creditors out of money by buying a car. Well it beats walking so my anger is indeed focused on the trustee. I respect the Judge and understand his ruling. He purposely denied the motion to have them sold by a specific date, which I read as even the judge thought it was kind of petty to make him sell his junkers that don't run and don't have the money to repair. Hey I got a toaster that's not working guess I should sell it. This is my first BK and total debut is 50k. This was really to strip the second off. Now my home is someday closer to a target to loan value to break even.

What I don't need is speculation but rather experience. I have no intention of committing a fraud on the court. If I sell the car then buy it back at a later date is that possible. The longer I keep the cars the less their are worth, no kidding. I will register them as basket case repairs needed and sell them for what ever I can get, and give it to the nazi trustee. If you think the trustee is your buddy here folks, rattle their cage, and see. I hold them in the same regard as I do lawyers and car salesmen...

[sammych13]

Yes, it was court ordered to sell the cars (2) that are not working and keep the new one. My plan is a 5 year installment.

[sammych13]

Nope no 363 motion, just left it open, sale them for ever you can get an send the bill of sale and the funds to the trustee. That was the full order of the court.

[AngelinaCat]

If you think the trustee is your buddy here folks, rattle their cage, and see. I hold them in the same regard as I do lawyers and car salesmen...

No one here that I know of considers the trustee their 'friend'. They are expected to follow the BK code, no more, no less. That is all.

Des is a lawyer, and you can trust his/her posts. However, we already know your opinion of lawyers...

[dmc-2008]

I am sorry if I rattled your cage. But also want to add that so many people buy new cars right before filing! Like almost everybody! It's kind of Standard procedure from what I have noticed. I don't think your T even noticed that really.

Maybe they just thought that more than one or two cars was excessive? Idk really.

[dmc-2008]

But it seems like your lawyer should have seen this as a potential problem for you!

[sammych13]

Gosh I jut wrote two pages and it didn't post, ahh my luck. Hey no hard feelings, were family all in this crap together. I appreciate ALL the reply's, good, bad and indifferent. I just got a raw deal and just trying to make some lemon aid of of these lemons.

cheers,,,

[despritfreya]

Gosh I jut wrote two pages and it didn't post, ahh my luck.

Solution to this problem. Use Word or Word Perfect (whichever you prefer). . . write up what you want to post then cut and paste it. Don't close Word until you know your post is complete. The problem you had is not unusual.

Des.

[AngelinaCat]

There is an Auto-save feature, but as you experienced, it isn't always reliable.