Chapter 13 early payoff

[spidge]

I just caught a little factoid. 13Network does not reflect a plan base, but NDC does show it plainly.

[justbroke]

Very interesting information!

[spidge]

13Network has a claims payout matrix that shows a total due. NDC shows the plan base and how much has been paid in, but no total due section. I can assume on NDC that the payoff would be roughly what I paid in so far subtracted from the plan base, but is that accurate? 13Network has the total due on the claims matrix which is substantially less that the NDC math. Would the 13Network be more accurate as to the payoff amount?

Confusing to me.

[BNKRPTinNC]

13Network has a claims payout matrix that shows a total due. NDC shows the plan base and how much has been paid in, but no total due section. I can assume on NDC that the payoff would be roughly what I paid in so far subtracted from the plan base, but is that accurate? 13Network has the total due on the claims matrix which is substantially less that the NDC math. Would the 13Network be more accurate as to the payoff amount?

Confusing to me.

Can't speak for 13Network as I don't think my trustee used it but NDC was spot on for payout and balances. Plan base did not match as we ended up going over by about $1200 once everything was paid out. My guess would be because of fluctuation of % paid to the trustee during the plan and the fact that my mortgage was paid an extra month. The final numbers worked out but I was dazed and confused for 5 years.

[drew999999]

When I talked to my Trustee's office a couple of months ago to get a payoff amount, I asked about the difference in what she gave me compared to NDC. She said that their amounts are recorded there, but they do not use it as their formal accounting platform. For my case, the discrepancy was with the trustee fees which are not accounted for on NDC. I actually liked logging into NDC and seeing the balances going down, and with the newer site format being able to export the data into excel was an awesome way of watching the totals. Your attorney should be able to get in touch with the Trustee's office to get a 'to the penny' total if necessary.

[spidge]

Can't speak for 13Network as I don't think my trustee used it but NDC was spot on for payout and balances. Plan base did not match as we ended up going over by about $1200 once everything was paid out. My guess would be because of fluctuation of % paid to the trustee during the plan and the fact that my mortgage was paid an extra month. The final numbers worked out but I was dazed and confused for 5 years.

Could you explain what you mean by the mortgage was paid an extra month?

[mylife]

Please keep us updated on paying off early. Our attorney said we can pay early but it won't let us out of the plan, it just means we won't have to make any payments. Not sure he knows what he's talking about ever!

[drew999999]

Please keep us updated on paying off early. Our attorney said we can pay early but it won't let us out of the plan, it just means we won't have to make any payments. Not sure he knows what he's talking about ever!

This isn't true (at least in my area). I just paid out a final lump sum on my 100% plan last month (payment 48 of 60). A week after mailing the payment, the trustee started the paperwork and I have my discharge hearing next week. Without the lump sum payment, my plan would have ended in 2015.

I'm not sure if this would be a local rule, but the way I read it, as long as you pay 100%, you're free. I'd ask your lawyer to recheck this for ya.

[spidge]

This isn't true (at least in my area). I just paid out a final lump sum on my 100% plan last month (payment 48 of 60). A week after mailing the payment, the trustee started the paperwork and I have my discharge hearing next week. Without the lump sum payment, my plan would have ended in 2015.

I'm not sure if this would be a local rule, but the way I read it, as long as you pay 100%, you're free. I'd ask your lawyer to recheck this for ya.

If one is under median and over the 3 year mark the plan base becomes the focus despite payback percentage.. Then again every district is a little different.

[spidge]

If a creditor does not make a claim do those creditors who made claims benefit or are they only allowed the amount based on the original payback percentage?

[LadyInTheRed]

If a creditor does not make a claim do those creditors who made claims benefit or are they only allowed the amount based on the original payback percentage?

If a creditor doesn't file a claim, the creditor does not get paid a penny. The debt will be discharged in full (assuming it is a dischargeable debt and the creditor got notice of the BK).

[drew999999]

If one is under median and over the 3 year mark the plan base becomes the focus despite payback percentage.. Then again every district is a little different.

While this is true, the Trustee's job is to collect your disposable income and make payments on the filed claims. The way that I understand an under-median/over 3 year payback, if the debtor were to get a large bonus and attempt to pre-pay the payments in year 3, it would be posted as a 'one time payment' instead of the monthly. The plan base is nothing more than the original plan, but if additional money (tax refunds, etc allow for the base to be paid earlier than 60 months, collections can continue. My plan base on NDC was actually based on my guessed balances when I did my initial packet. My payments were then this number/60. When I originally found out that I was going to be able to payoff early, I assumed that the payment would be the plan base minus the payments already made. I was corrected and told that if I paid that amount, monthly payments would continue until all claims were paid in full or 60 months of payments were made. Long story short... I had to pay more than the plan base to complete my plan early as the submitted claims were higher than my plan base.

I just question the lawyer's statement that if the plan base was paid in full in a non-100% plan, that no additional payments would be necessary for the rest of the 60 month term. Why would the trustee allow the extra couple of years' disposable income be exempt?

[spidge]

If a creditor doesn't file a claim, the creditor does not get paid a penny. The debt will be discharged in full (assuming it is a dischargeable debt and the creditor got notice of the BK).

I don't think I was clear. Do those who made a claim share what would originally have been distributed to those who did not make claims?

Say there are 10 creditors listed at $1K each paid back at 50 percent for a beginning total of $5K in the plan. After the claim period only 5 of those creditors made claims for a total of $2,500 using the original 50 percent payback. Would these remaining claims receive a higher payback because the other creditors did not make a claim? Would they get more based on the monthly disposable income?

[drew999999]

I don't think I was clear. Do those who made a claim share what would originally have been distributed to those who did not make claims?

Say there are 10 creditors listed at $1K each paid back at 50 percent for a beginning total of $5K in the plan. After the claim period only 5 of those creditors made claims for a total of $2,500 using the original 50 percent payback. Would these remaining claims receive a higher payback because the other creditors did not make a claim? Would they get more based on the monthly disposable income?

Unfortunately for us... they would take those funds and distribute them to the other creditors. Since the creditor that didn't file wouldn't be in the claim total, this scenario would actually put you in a higher payback. In your scenario, it would assume that you have $2500 in disposable income would come out to the 50% payback (if all creditors filed). If one did not file, you would still pay $2500, but since there would only be $4000 in claims, you would now be in a 62.5% payback plan. No changes in your payment would be made. The percentages are really confusing and don't mean alot until you hit 100% payback. In 100% paybacks, most trustees are a bit more relaxed with the 'all disposable income' thing and will let the payments go out to 60 months even if there is extra money that is considered 'disposable'.

[spidge]

Thanks drew, I thought that was the answer, but of course was hoping for better.