My Repayment plan is almost as much as before I filed

[dscurlock]

filing next week...

This is true. I had to give up alot in my Chapter 13. Went down to the bare bones basic cable. Cut my high speed internet down to the slowest possible broadband speed. Our idea of vacations went from a Bermuda cruise before Bankruptcy to camping in the local state park in bankruptcy.

I am not a smoker, but I do enjoy a cold beer. I used to LOVE Sam Adams Light...the best of the best, right? Maybe a nice case of Heinekens? Now....in a Chapter 13? 12 pack of Busch Light is living large!

Minnymouth is right....just because you consider the $175 on smokes a month necessary, the court will not. The whole point of a Chapter 13 is the court takes ALL your disposable income.

If I were you, I would either quit smoking or learn to smoke the cheapest smokes around.......

YOu guys are just making me mad, how in the heck did i get
tied up in this, I dont plan on filing chap 13, and I sure hell
do not intend to pay anyone, or anything back, other then our real
monthly expenses, and that does not include the $125k debt,

god almightly, I wished i had filed chap 7 last year when i
was thinking about it then...what a shit storm I am flying into now.

[dscurlock]

filing next week...

I understand your frustration, but you are missing the point of a Chapter 13 or a Chapter 7. At this point, it sounds like already are living paycheck to paycheck, even living in negative equity. At this rate, you will never get out of debt unless you win the lottery or something. Sure you will be living the same way in a Chapter 13, but you are paying your debt and be given a fresh start. When you are done in 5 years, you are debt free. Or in 5 years, you will probably still be in the same spot, or even worse.

Believe me, I feel your pain. BK, whether a 7 or 13, sucks. But for many of us, it is the only way to stop the bleeding, so to speak, and start over. But to given that opportunity to start over, you have to pay a price whether it is a monthly payment or loss of house, or whatever.

how does the govt expect anyone that runs in negative each month, no matter what money is spent on, to make a repayment of anything. they ask for 6 months of statements, surely they will see all this...

[Jman30]

YOu guys are just making me mad, how in the heck did i get
tied up in this, I dont plan on filing chap 13, and I sure hell
do not intend to pay anyone, or anything back, other then our real
monthly expenses, and that does not include the $125k debt,

god almightly, I wished i had filed chap 7 last year when i
was thinking about it then...what a shit storm I am flying into now.

You may be getting mad, but it the truth. If a Chapter 13 or a Chapter 7 were easy and painless, everyone would do it.

And as far as you having no intention to pay back your $125K in debts, there is not much to say there. You will only be in a worse spot soon. But I do understand your situation. There was a time before I filed that I threw up hands and almost said, who cares? Let them take the house, the cars, let them take everything, I give up.

But I glad I took the route I did. It taught me alot about being a financially responsible adult.

[dscurlock]

chap 13

You may be getting mad, but it the truth. If a Chapter 13 or a Chapter 7 were easy and painless, everyone would do it.

And as far as you having no intention to pay back your $125K in debts, there is not much to say there. You will only be in a worse spot soon. But I do understand your situation. There was a time before I filed that I threw up hands and almost said, who cares? Let them take the house, the cars, let them take everything, I give up.

But I glad I took the route I did. It taught me alot about being a financially responsible adult.

If i wanted to pay it back, I would go to chap 13, if i thought the payments would only be $100/mo then i might agree to this, but I know it wont, it will be more like $500-$1000 maybe even more. We do not have that kind of disposable income to maintain this for very long, even if we had $500 disposable income, and the monthly payment was $1000-$2k a month, you see that would never work...

[Jman30]

If i wanted to pay it back, I would go to chap 13, if i thought the payments would only be $100/mo then i might agree to this, but I know it wont, it will be more like $500-$1000 maybe even more. We do not have that kind of disposable income to maintain this for very long, even if we had $500 disposable income, and the monthly payment was $1000-$2k a month, you see that would never work...

I understand and I am not against you....I am just trying to let you know how it will most likely play out. If your income is too high for a Chapter 7, then there is no choice but a chapter 13 if you want to go the BK route. The good news is that a BK will stop all collections, stops the phone call from creditors and stop all the interest from accruing on your credit cards. It basically freezes you where you are at when you file and gives you time to undig.

But I know what you are saying about not having the money. An attorney would basically make a budget for you and the court will approve your expenses for certain items, like clothing, food, gas, etc. They will RULE your finaincial life.

[aa06a47]

As a general rule, the court will allow with no questions asked whatever is on the means test. Then you will need documented proof of the other expenses, such as 300/month on clothing might be allowed if proven it is necessary for the job. (I doubt they will ever approve that much, but you can try). Actual average utility bills, if you can prove it, they will allow it.

Yes, 13 sucks, way much more than a 7, but in 5 years, all your income is disposible. If your willing to go before a judge, you might be able to "win" some of the expenses. Some judges even allow smokes, but most consider that as part of "misc" expenses allowed on the means test.

I can tell from the reactions to some of the post, perhaps BK was thought to be a piece of cake, but believe me it isn't. Each month becomes a challange. Even if you don't chose bk, sooner or later, credit will dry up and you will only be able to live with what you make. You will not be able to spend 3-500 per month more than you make.

[teribesse]

Well I want to thank all of you that responded to my post. I contacted my attorney and faxed him all receipts that I have for questionable expenses and went with the very miniumum on misc. expenses. Before BK my monthly payments were $1900 now with interest rates rising I'm sure they would be over $2,100 a month. My plan should be confirmed tomorrow for $1,200 per month for the next 55 months at 100%. I've cut back to the bare minimum on everything and if I stick with it this will work! I'm so glad!

[Jman30]

Well I want to thank all of you that responded to my post. I contacted my attorney and faxed him all receipts that I have for questionable expenses and went with the very miniumum on misc. expenses. Before BK my monthly payments were $1900 now with interest rates rising I'm sure they would be over $2,100 a month. My plan should be confirmed tomorrow for $1,200 per month for the next 55 months at 100%. I've cut back to the bare minimum on everything and if I stick with it this will work! I'm so glad!

That is great news! First, that $1,200 stays the same for the whole 55 months, regardless of interest rates. And you were somehow able to keep your ship afloat from $1,900 a month so $1,200 a month, while not easy, should be easier than what you were used too!

And because you are paying back at 100%, if have any equity in your house, at some point before the 55 months you can try and refinance out.

[JeepMom]

Let us know how this turns out today.

[$$only4ever]

What everyone has said is true. No matter how you slice it, filing bankruptcy stinks, but so does struggling to pay bills every month with no end in sight. Or worse yet, you can't pay your bills at all and having the collectors hunt you down like a dog. Filing bankruptcy was one of the hardest decisions that I ever made, but I am not sorry that I did it. I filed under the old law which I guess was more flexible than the new law and thanks to my attorney we ended up with a decent monthly payment to the trustee. I was also lucky that the trustee I ended up with has been fair, too. No one can tell you what to do, the decision is yours. Sometimes it really comes down to what you are willing and able to tolerate.

[Jman30]

What everyone has said is true. No matter how you slice it, filing bankruptcy stinks, but so does struggling to pay bills every month with no end in sight. Or worse yet, you can't pay your bills at all and having the collectors hunt you down like a dog. Filing bankruptcy was one of the hardest decisions that I ever made, but I am not sorry that I did it. I filed under the old law which I guess was more flexible than the new law and thanks to my attorney we ended up with a decent monthly payment to the trustee. I was also lucky that the trustee I ended up with has been fair, too. No one can tell you what to do, the decision is yours. Sometimes it really comes down to what you are willing and able to tolerate.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Having a good Attorney and a fair Trustee is a big difference between a tolerable BK and a hellish BK

[lrprn]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Having a good Attorney and a fair Trustee is a big difference between a tolerable BK and a hellish BK

I wish there wasn't such a big difference between local customs of trustees and courts. A little difference can be good - allows for some leeway for personal situations and local norms - but a lot of difference the way things are now just leads to unfairness. That unfairness can lead to the utter destruction of innocent lives when you end up with one of the self-righteous, "all bk filers are flakes or frauds" trustees from he**. Worst of all scenarios, you could end up with a crook trustee and lose everything you own "legally" - ask Minny.

[anonymuse]

There is usually some give and take with the trustees.

For example, some trustees allow people to put a very low percentage into their 401K; however, they are much harsher on them--they make sure they are at the bare minimum phone, cell, and TV plan, and minimize their entertainment expenses. In your case, they may "allow" the smoking expenses, but be harsher in other areas to make up for it.

BK is not a free ride and you need to learn to live within your means during your payback and hopefully this will carry thru to post-BK.

From the experiences I've read on the boards, most trustees balk at any entertainment expenses coming near $100 a month (and that includes dining out.)

To play devil's advocate for a moment, this is probably how the trustee is thinking:

If your wife has been a Regional Manager for awhile, why the continued expenses of $300/mo. If guys can wear the same 5 suits each week, then woman can get by with 10 good outfits to fill two weeks and mix and match them for the rest of the month. (Honestly, too many women think they can't repeat wearing something twice in a month.)

"YOu guys are just making me mad, how in the heck did i get tied up in this, I dont plan on filing chap 13, and I sure **** do not intend to pay anyone, or anything back, other then our real monthly expenses, and that does not include the $125k debt,"

I know you're frustrated and angry so maybe you didn't mean this comment quite literally; however, what did you expect? Did you really think BK wasn't about anybody getting anything back?

What is your monthly income? How big is your family? How much equity do you have in your house? What are your monthly mortage payments?

First, I think you need to re-assess and re-think what BK is and what it is not. This will put you in the proper frame of reference. Remember, with Ch 13, you'll actually be paying down debt without interest and late charges. If you were paying the minimums outside of BK, interest would still skyrocket and you'd just be keeping up without paying off the debt--five years later, you probably wouldn't be in any better situation than now.

Second, you need to know your BK as if you are filing pro se. I know we pay a lot of money to our lawyers; however, we are the only ones who are truly invested in the outcome of the case. Go buy one of the NOLO books to understand BK laws and the forms inside and out. Get a program like Quicken and document every single expense you've had for at least 6 months and set-up categories just like in Schedule J so you can show proof of all of these expenses.

Good luck!

[$$only4ever]

Anonymuse,

You are absolutely correct. The best advice that I could give anyone is really think long and hard before you file. Bankruptcy does change the way that you live. What you may consider that necessities, the trustee may not. Bankruptcy was meant to be hard and maybe it should be. I have already learned that I do not ever want to be in this situation again. I have made 15 payments with 45 to go and while I have been luckier than some, it is still tough. With that being said, I no longer have to worry about being over my head in debt, all of my expenses are paid every month, we have food on the table and I even can save a few bucks every month for emergencies. Every month I make another payment to the trustee is one more step to financial freedom. I have also learned that I will never, never have another credit card. If I can't buy it with cash, then I don't need it.

[teribesse]

An update... I was confirmed with the $1200 a month payment for the next 55 months. I appreciate all of your advice and I look forward to reading posts on this forum in the future. Regards