locked in?

[dac67]

Ok, I have some questions. we filed in April and was confirmed on june 28th.
My lawyer talks about being "locked in" and that once we are locked in we can "basically" make what we want for income. I have looked and looked and can't find anyone that has mentioned being locked in? I see alot talk about once you are "confirmed" you can make extra income.
I never heard my trustee say that we had to disclose any extra income. I see where people say that "if" your trustee said to do this.
We are on a 36 month plan and have about 31 months left.
I think we got a terrible lawyer and he has not really helped well. He really screwed us on our budget. It has only thrown us further into financial problems.
One example is that "when" we were making out our budget plan my hub was using his vehicle for work , so at the time he was getting compensated for it, so our lawyer wouldn't budget him any money for gas, but two weeks after we filed it stopped , so when I tried to explain this to my lawyer he couldn't justify changing our plan. So now we are buying gas with money that is not budgeted and the price of gas is just rediculous. He should have advised me to get a better job then file , we are a family of 4 and things have changed we are constanly going over our medical related monthly budget, so I feel lost. I feel I can't confide in him, if I do he keeps telling to hang in there and wait till we are "locked in".

[lrprn]

Ok, I have some questions. we filed in April and was confirmed on june 28th.
My lawyer talks about being "locked in" and that once we are locked in we can "basically" make what we want for income. I have looked and looked and can't find anyone that has mentioned being locked in? I see alot talk about once you are "confirmed" you can make extra income.
I never heard my trustee say that we had to disclose any extra income. I see where people say that "if" your trustee said to do this.
We are on a 36 month plan and have about 31 months left.
I think we got a terrible lawyer and he has not really helped well. He really screwed us on our budget. It has only thrown us further into financial problems.
One example is that "when" we were making out our budget plan my hub was using his vehicle for work , so at the time he was getting compensated for it, so our lawyer wouldn't budget him any money for gas, but two weeks after we filed it stopped , so when I tried to explain this to my lawyer he couldn't justify changing our plan. So now we are buying gas with money that is not budgeted and the price of gas is just rediculous. He should have advised me to get a better job then file , we are a family of 4 and things have changed we are constanly going over our medical related monthly budget, so I feel lost. I feel I can't confide in him, if I do he keeps telling to hang in there and wait till we are "locked in".

This is the absolutely toughest part about Ch 13, dac67. I have no idea why Congress thought that somehow our lives would just freeze in place financially on the day we file for 3-5 years. Couldn't be farther from the truth (as unfortunately you are finding out).

Since your plan is already confirmed, I don't know what your lawyer is talking about when he says "locked in"...??

If you have had significant changes in your income and expenses since filing, then you have every right to file a plan modification with the court. The alternative is if you can't make your trustee payments on time, your case will be dismissed. You want to avoid that at all costs. This time when you modify your plan, go through your expenses, don't leave ANYTHING out, and don't scrimp! There's no blue ribbon waiting for you at the end for doing without.

Keep us posted on what happens, ok? I hope things turn around for you very soon.

[SinkingFast]

I don't get it either. Locked In. That's a new one on me.

As Lrprn said, after your plan is confirmed, if you've had changes in expenses, you can file to have your plan payments ammended.

Call your attny about getting your plan updated. Be sure to include the increased medical costs as well as the gasoline expenses. And anything else you realize you spend more on than your attny accounted for in your initial budget.

If need be, see about having another attny take over your case.

Hope everything works our for you! Keep us informed.

[dac67]

Thanks lrprn, the reason I write is I have a chance to make more money but my hub thinks we are suppose to wait until we are "locked in" so we will be safe , as my lawyer put it. With winter coming and the price of oil I will need extra money for electricity, oil, and propane. All the extra money I would earn would go to catch us up on car payments and get ready for winter fuel so it's not like I am going to Hawaii. We didn't even do a vacation this year except one three day trip to his dads. We could never afford to drive out of the drive way. We never had enough to do even a day trip, I feel bad I have put my kids in the is spot, and yes it is our fault.
I honestly think this Chapter 13 garbage is just as big a stress as before. I don't get how Chapter 7 can wipe out all their debt and make as much income as they want, but in a chapter 13 we are actually willing to pay back and we are put on a pathetic budget and cannot make anymore, it honestly makes no sense. Things happen in peoples lives and things change, there needs to be given some real thought put into this.

[SinkingFast]

Not to be nosey or anything here, but,.......... A couple of questions if you don't mind.

Did you file New Law?? If so, being in a 36 month Ch 13 plan tells me you are under the Median income level for your State.

If you are under the Median for your State,........... Did you go Ch 13 to catch up arrears on a house or car that you wanted to keep? Pay delinquent taxes perhaps?

If you didn't have a secured interest you were trying to keep and protect, you could have potentially filed Ch 7.

[dac67]

No we have no deliquent anything. We have no house , just living in one my dad bought so he could use the land for farm property.
We couldn't file chapter 7 did that 6 years ago, I know , I know.
How did we get ourselves in this again, well we don't make big money and we had left over credit bills from before and when we got tight we would rob peter to pay paul and the cycle just didn't stop. So we are so done with all of this we just want out once and for all. We do not by any means live a lavish lifestyle, just a medium one.
We are under the new law and we are under a median income.
But if I take this new job it will put us above the median. I feel like even now I can't get ahead or pay bills on time because we are just not budgeted right.
I would love to know what others are budgeted for food/groceries for a family of 4 , we are at 120.00 a week, that includes everything from detergent, toilet paper and food. I guess if we want to eat peanut butter and jelly then fine but with food cost we go over every week. We have 3 pets and are not budgeted anything for them as far as food and vet care. To me it is just bogus.

[dac67]

Before we did ch13 I was in a debt settlement program and I ended up with too lawsuits against me and the stress took it's toll and I got desperate and started calling lawyers, I was at the end of my rope and I didn't know which way too turn. I would cringe every time the phone rang and it rang all day. So as much as we didn't ever think we would file again I felt it was the best thing, cause I didn't want to go to court with the lawsuits.

[lrprn]

We are under the new law and we are under a median income.
But if I take this new job it will put us above the median.

There's the rub. Under the old law, there was a pretty clear guideline trustees used if you increased your income during Ch 13. Back before last October, if you increased your income more than 10% over the gross income you filed with, then the trustee would readjust your monthly payments to account for the extra. But now with the new law, there's no clear guideline at all. Some trustees have kept with the 10% level, but others have taken the stance that they want to know about ANY increase in income, period.

You need to check with your lawyer to see what the custom is around increased income during Ch 13 in your district at the moment. Wish I had something more dependable to tell you, but currently there is not much that's very dependable around the new law.

[SinkingFast]

I know all too well the "Rob Peter to pay Paul" cycle, Dac. And you don't have to be living a lavish lifestyle to have it happen. One visit to the doctor with a child, and poof, your budget for the month is blown on the office charge, maybe a couple of tests, meds if they are sick, etc. We've been struggling with sick cars lately so I know exactly how you feel.

You really need to get your BK filed budget ammended to allow you some room to breathe. Pester that attny to get the job done for you. That's what he/she got paid extra for in the first place. To go thru this 13 Plan with you.

[$$only4ever]

I do not believe that there is anything in the Bankruptcy Laws stating that you are "locked in." Under the old law, all of your disposable income for the first 36 months goes toward your owed balance. After 36 months, any disposable income above the payment is yours to keep. My understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong), under the new law no matter how long your plan is, all disposable income goes toward your owed balance. It is then up to the trustee how he or she wants to handle it. Nothing is ever locked in. The trustee wants the flexibility to be able to raise or lower your payment.

[dac67]

lrprn I was wrong, not sure what I was thinking but it won't bring us above the median which i beleive is 80,000 in our area. We will still be about 25,000 below that. Our lawyer said if we need to change things it will cost us 250.00. And if we have to go to court he will charge 250.00 an hour above what we already paid him. Which was 2500.00. This is why we are so called waiting cause he said that we can technically make what we want when we are "locked" in. One of those I am not suppose to tell you but I did type of things.

[dac67]

I read the "confirmation " letter last night and no where does it state that under the conditions of confirmation that we need to report any increase in wages to our trustee hand in any tax statements.
Thats another ? I had , if you have a tax return , do they find out about it, do they get it? I see where people have said yes and have increased their dependents so they don't get anything back. I was never told this by my lawyer. Do they recieve a copy of it? (trustee that is)

[$$only4ever]

My understanding is that if the request for your tax returns is not stated in your plan then you do not have to provide them unless the trustee specifically asks for them. I do not have to surrender my tax refunds neither.

[dac67]

Thanks you all have shed some light on my situation and I do greatly appreciate it.
My thoughts are maybe to take this job only thru the holidays then quit. Just to help us pay for the oil and electricity that we will need. Our house is not kept up by the owner and it is terrible in the winter as far as fuel cost.
I am also thinking I need to get a new lawyer, I am so sorry I took this one, I honestly feel like he is not on my side and that it is a bother now that I call, it's like he just wanted to get us confirmed and now doesn't want to deal with us.

[Jman30]

My understanding is that if the request for your tax returns is not stated in your plan then you do not have to provide them unless the trustee specifically asks for them. I do not have to surrender my tax refunds neither.

This is what my lawyer told me as well. Unless the Trustee specifically asks for your tax return, you don't need to provide one.