Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

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Question about returning/reaffirming property

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  • Question about returning/reaffirming property

    Excuse me if it's the wrong wording. We had our meeting with the paralegal (?) who is helping our ch.7 case to drop off our paperwork. We go tomorrow to sign/officially file. We're confused about something she said at the last meeting and wanted to get another opinion before we talked about it tomorrow. We were talking about exemptions and property values and the last meeting and my sewing machine came up. She had thrown out a value and I said it probably wasn't quite enough and that I didn't want a creditor to see I paid $1000 for it last year and it was valued at $50. She told me if it is still on a credit card that we are paying for that I will either need to turn it over or keep that credit card. I was confused, because quite frankly, many items from our home have ended up on credit cards. Like I'm sure my value city couch from five years ago still has a portion left on a card somewhere. Unfortunately, we just ended up in a position where we were having to charge a lot so there are tons of items (nothing extravagant like jewelry or luxury items) that are charged that we still owe a portion on. It was a generic home design card and wasn't store financing for this one specific item. We have far under the amount of exemptions allowed, so that is not an issue. I am just confused as to why you would have to return some items or keep paying on them.

  • #2
    No idea brother. Might someone will help you.


    • #3
      Are you using an attorney, or just a petition preparer? I'm just trying to gauge whether your paralegal is working for your attorney, or you're just using a paid petition preparer.

      The question about the value of your sewing machine is something that you'll have to determine. You could check sources like eBay, uBid or similar auction sites, to try to come up with the value. Think yardsale prices... not new. If you did use a credit card to purchase the machine and it was a "store" card, then there is likely what they call a PMSI "purchase money security interest" int he purchase. That simply means that they have a type of lien on the property until you pay for it. It is tough to determine whether the creditor will care and want it back as most do not want it back and simply forget about it. Some creditors, like Best Buy, will try to get it back or you'll have to pay for it if you keep it.

      The key word here is PMSI. Whether or not a "PMSI" creditor will complain and want you to reaffirm certain debt is too fact-specific and case-specific. You won't know until they complain.
      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


      • #4
        Thanks. justbroke we are using an attorney. He is who we first talked to and these are the people working in his office. This item is definitely not on a store card.


        • #5
          If it's on a VISA/Mastercard/American Express or Discover, this "PMSI" thing is not an issue at all.
          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


          • #6
            Might it be that the paralegal was warning you that the creditor could object to discharge of the portion of the debt related to the sewing machine? Maybe she thought they may argue that a $1,000 sewing machine is a luxury. This would be a more likely danger if the purchase was within 90 days of filing, but even then it would be rare for the creditor to bother filing a non-dischargeability complaint for such a small amount. If there is no PMSI issue, her statements don't make much sense.

            Ask for clarification of this and any other questions you may have before you sign the petition. If you think the sewing machine is worth more than $50, say so. Don't be afraid to ask to speak with the attorney if your meeting is with the paralegal and you don't understand her answers. I am a paralegal and always suggest clients talk to an attorney if they are not comfortable with my answers and am never offended if they prefer to speak to an attorney about their questions.
            Last edited by LadyInTheRed; 08-03-2017, 04:51 PM.
            LadyInTheRed is in the black!
            Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
            $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


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