Notice of Deficiency for form that I did submit!

[Ekop785]

Has anyone else had this happen? I received a notice of deficiency for a form (signed and dated) which supposedly they do not have. I am nervous enough without now having to worry about their errors.

Prior to this, I had another deficiency notice which was accurate, however (I have since mailed in the missing docs).

This is NOT going well. I hope my case does not get dismissed.

[justbroke]

You could get a deficiency for a form you actually submitted. This can happen when there is another accompanying form that was submitted. For example, and only an example, if you amend your petition Schedules A-G, you must also complete another summary sheet and recertification.

The best way to deal with deficiencies is to call the clerk's office. Make sure you say "I need to ask a procedural question..." and then talk about the deficiency. They'll tell you the exact specificity of why it's deficient.

Your case won't get dismissed if you correct the deficiencies in a timely manner. They usually give you something like 14 days to correct a deficiency and will usually abate your filing.

[Ekop785]

Ok, I will call her Monday. The letter was pretty specific, however, I do see that the form in question was not in the proper order in my paperwork . I wonder if that makes a difference? I will soon find out!

[justbroke]

One of the first things that the clerks do, when you file on paper at the Clerk's Intake counter, is that they put the forms in order. I think that's just to be organized for the flow of the petition. That shouldn't matter when it comes to a deficiency.

However, calling and asking the procedural question on what's the actual issue will help you immensely. Either they missed your form or there is some nuance that you missed. I probably had 3-5 deficiencies over the years and I know that on at least one, I had to call to find out what the actual issue.

[Ekop785]

Their intake is closed (according to their website), so I emailed the petition and followed up with the full package by mail (which they received). This deficiency notice specifies needing a signed Declaration page (B106), which was signed and dated, and the proper box checked stating I paid no one to help me.

This will haunt me over the weekend, I wish I had seen the notice earlier on Friday. Hopefully, it is nothing. I will call first thing Monday.

[justbroke]

I was just reminiscing about the intake and how the clerk reordered some of my pages.

The only way to find out the deficiency on form B106Dec, is to speak with the clerk's office. They use to assign a case manager specifically based on last 2 digits of SSN, but I don't know if they do that any longer. When you call, just say that you have a "procedural question related to a deficiency notice" and they'll get you to the right person.

I'm just thinking aloud, but the signature has to be a "wet" signature. If they think it's a copy, or an "imaged" version of the signature, it would not be acceptable. They want to see the indentation in the backside of the paper to prove that it's a wet signature.

[Ekop785]

Okay, so apparently, my Declaration had to be submitted with my schedule that was missing. So my Declaration page was included with my original docs, but when I submitted one of my schedules (to address a deficiency notice), I should have included the Declarations page (again).

That is what the gal told me. I find it a bit confusing, but I understand.

[bornfree2]

Okay, so apparently, my Declaration had to be submitted with my schedule that was missing. So my Declaration page was included with my original docs, but when I submitted one of my schedules (to address a deficiency notice), I should have included the Declarations page (again).

That is what the gal told me. I find it a bit confusing, but I understand.

The court rules for filing in person or mail or even electronically are so crazily convoluted. Pdfs must be flatted, this and that must be filed together, but this other thing later, the judges copy must be like this with the staple over her, the fonts of this size and type, the spacing like this and that, on and on.

The local court has stats on pro se and a big part of the dismissal is procedural mine fields like this.

Im using court listener's revap website that has actual petitions files as a guideline for how to file stuff.

[Ekop785]

The court rules for filing in person or mail or even electronically are so crazily convoluted. Pdfs must be flatted, this and that must be filed together, but this other thing later, the judges copy must be like this with the staple over her, the fonts of this size and type, the spacing like this and that, on and on.

The local court has stats on pro se and a big part of the dismissal is procedural mine fields like this.

Im using court listener's revap website that has actual petitions files as a guideline for how to file stuff.

You are correct. When I was hanging up, I thanked the lady for her time (she was very kind) and she said, "I know it can be confusing, but I have seen quite a few cases dismissed for this type of thing and I personally don't agree with it." So apparently, it is pretty common.

[bornfree2]

You are correct. When I was hanging up, I thanked the lady for her time (she was very kind) and she said, "I know it can be confusing, but I have seen quite a few cases dismissed for this type of thing and I personally don't agree with it." So apparently, it is pretty common.

So in your experience the court at least gives you a chance to correct things? Did you have to pay a fee to fix the mistake? If they are required to give you a fair shot of fixing things for rookie mistakes then thats a good thing for the Pro Se person

[Ekop785]

Yeah, my district gives two weeks, which I think is pretty generous. I have not had to pay anything, but I think under some circumstances you may have to pay a fee.

[justbroke]

Okay, so apparently, my Declaration had to be submitted with my schedule that was missing. So my Declaration page was included with my original docs, but when I submitted one of my schedules (to address a deficiency notice), I should have included the Declarations page (again).

Yep, that's what I wrote earlier. Any amendment requires a new summary sheet and a re-certification.

So in your experience the court at least gives you a chance to correct things? Did you have to pay a fee to fix the mistake? If they are required to give you a fair shot of fixing things for rookie mistakes then thats a good thing for the Pro Se person

Everyone gets a fair shot, including attorneys. Pro Se individual is treated no differently than the attorneys when it comes to process and procedure. If any person filed a paper (or papers) and missed a procedural step, the Clerk's office is sure to issue a deficiency. In some cases the paper filed could also be abated until the deficiency is resolved.

In general, the Clerk's deficiency will tell the attorney or debtor how many days that they have to correct the deficiency. The deficiency will state that the court may dismiss the case if the deficiency is not cured. That is generally 14 days from the notification.

[bornfree2]

In general, the Clerk's deficiency will tell the attorney or debtor how many days that they have to correct the deficiency. The deficiency will state that the court may dismiss the case if the deficiency is not cured. That is generally 14 days from the notification.

So if i staple the filing papers at the right corner not left, i get 14 more days to prepare for the bk and extend out the 341 meeting? Time to talk to attorney, get proper documentation, etc?

Im being sarcastic and I wouldnt do something so brazen but does it work like that?

[justbroke]

So if i staple the filing papers at the right corner not left, i get 14 more days to prepare for the bk and extend out the 341 meeting? Time to talk to attorney, get proper documentation, etc?

The first scheduled 341 Meeting isn't extended because you didn't file papers. Even if you don't meet the 7-day deadline to give the Trustee-specific documentation, the Trustee is likely to still hold the initial meeting. The Trustee would then just adjourn and hold another meeting if necessary.

If you fail to meet one of the deadlines, the case could be dismissed. Then you'll have to motion to reconsider the dismissal or something similar. If you keep it up, you could be sanctioned and that sanction could include a dismissal with prejudice.

A sanction that included a dismissal with prejudice, on technical grounds, could be to specifically prevent the debtor from abusing the automatic stay. So people have tried this and have been met with dismissals with prejudice. Those dismissals usually bar the debtor from filing anytime within 180 days of the dismissal order and, even if the debtor did file another petition within that period, the automatic stay would not come into affect.

This keeps people from using the system in order to stave off foreclosures by purposefully doing things to get their case extended or dismissed.

So, no, it doesn't work like that.

[bornfree2]

The first scheduled 341 Meeting isn't extended because you didn't file papers. Even if you don't meet the 7-day deadline to give the Trustee-specific documentation, the Trustee is likely to still hold the initial meeting. The Trustee would then just adjourn and hold another meeting if necessary.

If you fail to meet one of the deadlines, the case could be dismissed. Then you'll have to motion to reconsider the dismissal or something similar. If you keep it up, you could be sanctioned and that sanction could include a dismissal with prejudice.

A sanction that included a dismissal with prejudice, on technical grounds, could be to specifically prevent the debtor from abusing the automatic stay. So people have tried this and have been met with dismissals with prejudice. Those dismissals usually bar the debtor from filing anytime within 180 days of the dismissal order and, even if the debtor did file another petition within that period, the automatic stay would not come into affect.

This keeps people from using the system in order to stave off foreclosures by purposefully doing things to get their case extended or dismissed.

So, no, it doesn't work like that.

Its good to hear this. I began to loose hope in due process and a robust legal system during the last 4 years. Good to know as long as people practice the law by the letter and not by politics, we have a pretty darn good system in place for justice.