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"Bonus" pay days before 341...UGH! HELP!!!

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  • "Bonus" pay days before 341...UGH! HELP!!!

    So, DH found out today that his assistant coaching pay will be included on his June 1 paycheck. Problem is, it is 5 days BEFORE our 341. It will likely be between $1200 & $1500 added on. He called the payroll person and asked that they delay the payment until the following paycheck, but they "can't". When he persisted, she checked with her boss, who again said "no". So, we'll be heading into our 341 with this extra $$. Being as we are "borderline" on income anyways, I'm concerned that the trustee is going to force us into a Ch13, which we really cannot afford. Is there anything that we can say/do to help this situation? It's a once-a-year payment. We certainly will be spending it on our back child care expenses, which our daughter's preschool has been very understanding about. As long as we show that it is a "one shot deal" and that we are using it appropriately, will it be a problem?

    I'm getting a bit more nervous as our 341 nears...I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    Hoping for brighter skies ahead...
    4/7/07 Filed Ch7 :unsure:
    6/6/07 341 meeting done :blink:
    8/5/07 last day for objections :yes2:
    8/23/07 DISCHARGED!!! :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

  • #2
    Has your trustee asked for checkstubs?
    Chapter 7 Pro Se....Discharged Feb. 2006


    • #3
      Originally posted by cindylynnsmith View Post
      Has your trustee asked for checkstubs?
      We were instructed to bring them with us to our 341...all check stubs since filing.
      4/7/07 Filed Ch7 :unsure:
      6/6/07 341 meeting done :blink:
      8/5/07 last day for objections :yes2:
      8/23/07 DISCHARGED!!! :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:


      • #4
        well, just be honest. its all you can do. Its unlikely it will put you over the edge. It is what you were making when you filed that matters, unless you income changes a significant amount..(I think its 10%) then I wouldn't worry. The bonus would be annualized, so I can't see it making that much difference. I CERTAINLY wouldn't bring it up or offer up the check stubs unless asked. Keep the tighty tucked away. Take a deep breathe and relax....its probably not a huge deal. What does your attorney say?
        Chapter 7 Pro Se....Discharged Feb. 2006


        • #5
          Thanks for the speedy replies...and encouragement.

          Our atty hasn't heard this yet, since it was late in the day today that we found out. I'm a teeny, tiny bit inclined not to tell him....unless it comes up at the 341. I'm just a little bit concerned about him trying to convince us to go CH13. As I mentioned in an earlier post, just last week, he told me he was "a little worried that we may have to go with a 13"....FIRST time he'd EVER mentioned that. After reading so many things here about attorneys who suggenst 13, knowing that you'll have to convert to a 7 and pay them again, I'm just a little (ok, alot) overly cautious.

          I'll definitely NOT bring it up, but I'm fairly certain he will ask for paystubs, as that is the ONLY thing requested, other than our social security cards and photo ID.

          Thanks again!

          Hoping for brighter skies ahead...
          4/7/07 Filed Ch7 :unsure:
          6/6/07 341 meeting done :blink:
          8/5/07 last day for objections :yes2:
          8/23/07 DISCHARGED!!! :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:


          • #6
            I'm surprised you've been instructed to bring pay stubs from post filing to a Ch 7 341 Meeting. I took ours and our attny said he didn't need them. The Trustee didn't ask to see them either. It was just for pay up thru filing day, not after, that pay stubs were needed. Showing pay stubs at the 341 is common when people file Ch 13.

            If that holds true for you, chances are you won't even have to show your pay stubs from between filing and the 341.

            Where you might get caught is, "In your job, do you receive bonuses?"

            Our Trustee did ask that question.

            Be sure to listen to the question very carefully. How the Trustee words the question. Before you answer.

            Our Trustee asked, "Do you typically receive bonuses with your job?" Hubby said, "If there's a bonus program, I am not aware of it." And the Trustee said, "So you have not been paid any bonuses?" Hubby said, "Correct. I have not been paid any bonuses."

            We were totally unaware it was coming, but,........... Shortly after our 341, Hubby got a "bonus" gift card from his employer for not having taken any sick days the previous year. The gift card was good for purchases at our local shopping Mall.
            Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
            Discharged - 12/2006
            Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
            Closed - 04/2007

            I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

            Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...


            • #7
              Hmmm .. you only 5 days away from the 341 meeting, is the most recent check stub (pay stub?) going to show that bonus ??? If not than you should have no worries. I wouldn't mentioned it, but if it comes back around where the Trustee finds out about that bonus .. hmmm .. I know that I took risk while I filed, but thats just me.

              Best of Luck, CMIYC
              July 2006: Filed Ch13 :blink:
              Oct 2006: Converted to Ch7 :clapping:
              Jan 2007: DISCHARGED :clapping:
              Nov 2007: CLOSED :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:


              • #8
                Our trustee didn't ask to see anything I brought. He already had copies of our tax returns and paystubs. Just be honest with them about the extra money - hiding it will be a bad idea since I am sure he will find it if he looks. And definately call your attorney today to ask what to do with it.
                3/30/07 Petition signed
                5/21/07 341 Meeting
                7/20/07 Last day for Objections
                7/25/07 DISCHARGED 7/30/07 CLOSED


                • #9
                  You may also get the " Has anything changed in your income lately or do you foresee any changes" whether or not you need to mention a bonus is kind of a gray area. I would talk to your lawyer to see what he suggests, then as everyone says bring it with if you have to, but do not show him your hand. Keep them in a file folder on the floor. Only answer questions with a yes or no if possible and don't offer any information that is not being directly asked for. You need to remember that the trustee is looking for money, he is not your friend and if he also is the trustees for a Chapter 13 then pushing you that way means more to line his own pockets with so don't give him an excuse. Trust me I wish I could have filed a 7, I would probably be getting discharged in the next month or so instead of looking at sometime 2012.
                  Filed Chapter 13: 3/12/07
                  Confirmed 5/14/07
                  Last day from Claims 7/10/07
                  Trying to stay under the radar


                  • #10
                    So, DH found out today that his assistant coaching pay will be included on his June 1 paycheck. Problem is, it is 5 days BEFORE our 341.
                    First of all, I wouldn't define this summer coaching pay as a bonus. It is pay for his summer part time job. So therefore, you can honestly answer the question about bonuses as "No". Be prepared to explain this is not an increase in pay, it is a one time pay in advance for a part time position and his next check will be back to the usual amount.

                    Good luck!!!
                    I used to have a life, now I have grandkids.


                    • #11
                      Exactly what Granny said. Since this is income from an assistant coaching position, that is exactly what it is, income. What sport, may I ask, is your husband coaching that it would be added to his regular pay check? One year, my husband's softball income was added to his regular pay check (since he works for the City), and we had to tell the payroll dept to stop that since he would be paying taxes twice on the income (self-employment, FED and state taxes). Does your hubby receive a 1099 for this income? If he does, it's not a bonus.


                      • #12
                        I had a similar sitch. I expect a 6 mo bonus shortly. They filed today to beat it. They take all income for the last 6 months from time you came in to office and average it - your coaching deal as well. I was told to bring in the latest paystub the day I go to court. Good thread though. Keep us posted.


                        • #13
                          Actually, now that I think of it, this really ISN'T bonus's just part of his regular income every spring. Same as last year and the year before that, etc. Hubby is a track & field coach at the high school where he is also a teacher. This is his 4th year in the position. So this pay was also part of his total income from last year, which would be calculated as part of our annual income when they did our I & J schedules, and also included in W-2's. It is not a separate check, since it's within the school district.

                          I'll have to check our paperwork again, but I'm almost certain they said to bring all checkstubs since filing. Maybe not....that would be really nice!

                          I did email the atty/paralegal today, but have not heard back yet. Will definitely keep you posted...

                          Hoping for brighter skies ahead...
                          4/7/07 Filed Ch7 :unsure:
                          6/6/07 341 meeting done :blink:
                          8/5/07 last day for objections :yes2:
                          8/23/07 DISCHARGED!!! :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:


                          • #14
                            Email from atty's paralegal today said "shouldn't be a problem since the extra pay is after the filing". However, I double checked our paperwork, and it clearly says to bring to the 341 meeting: driver's license, social security card, bank statements and last 2 paystubs. So if income after the filing date doesn't matter, why would they request paystubs & bank statements?


                            Hoping for brighter skies ahead...
                            4/7/07 Filed Ch7 :unsure:
                            6/6/07 341 meeting done :blink:
                            8/5/07 last day for objections :yes2:
                            8/23/07 DISCHARGED!!! :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by brokeinmichigan View Post
                              So if income after the filing date doesn't matter, why would they request paystubs & bank statements?
                              Our Ch 13 trustee asked us to bring all of our paystubs from the date of filing up through our 341 with us to our meeting - for us that was two each. We brought all of them with us, but our trustee never asked for them - hopefully yours won't either.

                              Whether income earned after filing should count toward setting your Ch 13 payment is winding its way through multiple bk court districts even as we speak. So far the bk judges have ruled on both sides - some have said that income after filing can't count because Congress specifically set the six-month pre-filing period as the only income estimate that matters. Other bk judges have ruled that Congress "really meant" that post-filing income should be a part of the income estimate and so it should be considered.

                              It may be that your district is one that's had a case decided that post-filing income doesn't count which is why your lawyer isn't worried about it. You might ask your lawyer if there have been any cases like yours that have already been decided by your bk judge since the revised bk law went into effect in mid-Oct 2005.
                              I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

                              06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
                              06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
                              07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
                              10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
                              01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
                              09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
                              06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
                              08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

                              10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
                              Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go


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