HOAs...

[BKcrazy]

Anyone else have one listed in their BK petition? I had to list mine. Apparently they can only make me pay for the time I stay here postpetition. I'm thinking my lender isn't going to kick me out cause I'm sure they want me to keep this hovel (condo) I call home.

I just scraped by in filing because the HOA and lender hadn't started any proceedings against me.

[BassBoy]

The HOA can make you pay.....

Section 523(a)(16) under the US Code states:
(16) for a fee or assessment that becomes due and payable after the order for relief to a membership association with respect to the debtor’s interest in a dwelling unit that has condominium ownership or in a share of a cooperative housing corporation, but only if such fee or assessment is payable for a period during which—
(A) the debtor physically occupied a dwelling unit in the condominium or cooperative project; or
(B) the debtor rented the dwelling unit to a tenant and received payments from the tenant for such period,

but nothing in this paragraph shall except from discharge the debt of a debtor for a membership association fee or assessment for a period arising before entry of the order for relief in a pending or subsequent bankruptcy case.

This code is interpreted that it only applies to condos and/or cooperative housing. You'll have to continue to pay the HOA as long as you (or someone else) is occupying the condo.

[inhocknow]

Hello folks, thanks for all of your help. I own a condo near the beach that I am surrendering. I have filed for chapter 7 a month ago. I am still paying my h.o.a. dues every month even though nobody is living in the condo. I did not include these dues as debts on my schedules. Do I need to continue to pay? Thanks for all of your help.

[BassBoy]

From my understanding, you do not need to continue to make the HOA payment, however it is always best to discuss this with your attorney if one represented you.

[busbis]

I am also surrendering 2 beach properties and currently no one is in them. I have not rented out since August. My attorney did tell me to include my past due HOA and assesments and I will keep my fingers crossed that they will not file a claim. But he said that is all I am liable for. Hopefully he knows what he is talking about.

[BKcrazy]

I can understand paying postpetition, and if need be, I will leave soon. I hate it here anyway. But, according to my attorney, he said prepetition becomes unsecured debt. I had to list them. Eh, just going to see what happens. For the $200 a month I was paying before, not really sure what they did with that money. Can't see a difference in the property at all.

I forgot to mention, they hadn't put a lien on the property or sent me to collections/small claims. So, they have not attached themselves to anything. I had been willing to work with them when the new manager came in. But, the President of the HOA was a jerk and loudly told me at one point they were going to send me to collections (didn't happen) in front of EVERYONE in the office. Jerk. I called and informed them of my BK filing and attorney info, then ten minutes later they called me to ask me questions. Idiots. They have had some issues with a previous manager, still lives here I think, and I guess the paperwork is a mess. Half the time they forget what unit I'm in. And according to the monthly newletter, a lot of people are behind. The HOA here is drowning I think, sad, but they had a man running it with only about 3 office hours a day. You get what you pay for.

[inhocknow]

Hello folks, I spoke with my attorney today and he advised me to stop paying my HOA monthly dues. I am not living in the condo, nor is anyone else. I am surrending the condo in my bankruptcy 7. What I don't understand is that, if I stop paying this debt, can they come after me for it? When I filed my petition for chapter, I did not list this as a debt cause I was not behind in payments. I am still on time with them. I filed about one month and if I stop paying them now then all this money that I will owe them will be from after filing for bankruptcy. Can someone explain to me why I do not have to pay anymore? Thanks for all of your help.

[CindyLou]

This is how it works:

You can stop paying it until you file. Then once you file you must start paying it again until your foreclosure. Because you still "own" the property post-BK even though you don't owe the debt, the HOA dues become due again post-petition. Many folks make the mistake of not paying these fees post-petition and have a big problem rebuilding credit because this is the first big hit on their credit post BK.

The problem comes in when the bank drags its feet on the foreclosure! I have seen postings when people in this situation will do a deed in lieu of foreclosure to try and get out of the property as quickly as possible after the BK.

But in order to stay current on new debt, be sure and start paying on the first month that comes due after the date you FILE.

[BKcrazy]

Soooo, I filed Nov 2. I need to start paying Dec 1? I may up and leave and move in with a friend. My attorney said to pay if I was still living here post-petition. I'm giving my condo back in the bankruptcy.

[CindyLou]

Whether you live there or not has nothing to do with it. If your name is on the deed you'd better pay those fees til foreclosure is completed. Bk only zeros out your loan and any debts up to the day you file. If your fees come due Dec 1 and you haven't foreclosed and you don't pay then you are incurrring NEW DEBT post Bk. The HOA will send you to collections.

Do a search on this forum.

Again "giving up" your condo in bk only wipes out the debt. You still own it on paper til the foreclosure thus giving you the responsibility of the HOA fees.

[BKcrazy]

But, what if the HOA won't take the Dec payment or any others? I can see them being snarky about that. I'm planning to leave the state in Jan.

And do they do anything else other than foreclose when you have filed bankruptcy? I've gotten letters and calls that they want to "help" me out. They can have this place back.

[BassBoy]

Hmmm.....we may need some clarity about this because according to the US Code I posted (US Code: Title 11, Chapter 5, Subchapter II: 523(a)(16)), the dues do not need to be paid if the condo is unoccupied. At least that's how it was interpreted by our attorney when I asled him about this when we had our HOA send us a bill. We lived in a house, so according to him, dues for a single family dwelling are not included in that US Code, but the code is interpreted for condos and townhouses.

[busbis]

Our atty stated that the HOA dues run w the property and not the person. We do not have a contract or anything withe the association so how am I liable. If the dues are not paid, don't they just put a lien on the property? What gives them the legal right to come after me personally...just curious. My dues are for condos.

[BassBoy]

Aside from whether or not you need to continue the payments or not based on the Code, the HOA can either attach a lien or persue you. Remember this is would be a postpetion debt, and therefore you would be responsible for. The HOA would not be able to collect payment of the lien because you would have dischaged the debt (if incurred before filing). On the other hand, I do not believe they would attach a lien after filing. When we had this issue come up, it was unclear to us how that would work out if liens started being attached to the home after filing BK.

Your attorney is right, the dues go with the property and because the property is still in your name, you are responsible for those fees.

[busbis]

I am filing a 13 and plan to include the arrearage in my plan which also includes the assesments. But currently no one is occupying these properties. My dues are $800 per month between to condos in FL. FL takes around 1 year to foreclose and that's if the mtg company starts right away...I'm not even in default yet. So if I surrender these properties my understanding is since they are not occupied then I would not have to pay these dues...only the past due that's included in the plan. So how do I protect myself for the future dues that come around each month. I can't afford them... but I don't want them to come to me 1 year later and sue me for them either. If the mortgage company ever sells the property, wouldn't the dues have to be current/paid from the new buyer? I just assumed it worked like the property taxes...if you don't pay they take the property, not come after me personally with possible judgement and garnishments later.