Can I keep my horse? Considering Ch7

[limage]

New here.

I am meeting my attorney tomorrow regarding a possible ch 7, but I thought I would ask here.

I have a 7 year old horse that I paid 7500 for almost 4 years ago. He is probably worth 20k or more if I had to sell him.

I ride him everyday. He is my life. I could never part with him. I pay about 450 a month in board and feed. He is not a race horse, but a pleasure/dressage horse

I do some side training and coaching and I have used him as for lessons, but not sure I can prove that.

Is he considered a pet? Is he an asset that the court would make me sell? How would they determine his value? If I "give" him to my parents so he can stay in the family, is that fraud (if I do it before I file)?

Thanks

[okiemom2008]

what state are you in? I know in Oklahoma you can have 2 horses but not sure if the value matters?

[justbroke]

Yes, it will depend on which State you're in as to whether livestock and other animals are exempt... or what the exemption is.

Like New Hampshire exempts one horse or cow.

[AngelinaCat]

In Florida he would be considered livestock and not a pet. Also here in FLorida we had to list our three cats (all rescued strays) and give a value for each. To us, they're priceless--they're part of the family, so two Domestic Shorthairs and one Domestic Longhair have a value of $1.00 each.

[limage]

I am in Florida.

[justbroke]

I am in Florida.

Not covered by a specific Statute for exemption.

You'd have to use part of your homestead exemption or your wildcard... which would, combined only START to cover a $20K horse.

[hopeforus]

wow what a yucky situation

[limage]

So can I just give him to my parents? How does the court determine his value, by auction? I can show I paid 7500, I dont know how they could figure out that he would sell for more. I can't sell him. I have to figure a way to protect him.

I am short selling my home soon, so how will the homestead and wild card work?

[ansky0007]

So can I just give him to my parents? How does the court determine his value, by auction? I can show I paid 7500, I dont know how they could figure out that he would sell for more. I can't sell him. I have to figure a way to protect him.

I am short selling my home soon, so how will the homestead and wild card work?

HOw would they know your horse was worth more if you dont say anything. You have your proof of purchase at $7500 so I am sure you could find $7500 in exemptions to use. Its not like there is a wholesale horse book they can use to determine the value like they do with a car etc.

[hopeforus]

You can't just give him away. They will ask if you gave anything or sold anything within a certain amount of time. That's considered fraud.

But I agree... how will they know how much your horse is worth?

[Flamingo]

I was into horses for several years while in high school and did the horse show circuit and also fox hunting. I also owned one and am well aware of the expenses, vet bills and boarding fees involved. Unless there is something really special about your 7 year old horse, there is no way he is worth $20,000 unles he has champion lines for stud purposes. We all tend to overvalue our assets and he is more valuable to you personally as a friend and companion than he is worth as an animal to someone else. Your horse has aged 4 years since you purchased him so he probably is not even worth what you paid for him and I would focus on that. His value would depreciate as he got older and in the next few years he probably will not be as up to par as he is now. Focus on that and keep his value down. Best of luck to you and I hope all goes well.

[Woah]

Un-lurking to talk about this. We just filed 7 on 10/31 and I can relate to your situation somewhat. I am in a similar situation with one horse and my attorney asked what he was worth. Basically my guy has navicular (foot problems) and hasn't been ridden in about 3 years so I can honestly say he isn't worth the trustees time of day. Now if he just wanted to be ignorant he could take the horse, that is his right.

My questions for you would be..How much is he worth to someone else? Someone not emotionally attached. In my state people are abandoning horses to the humane society because they can't afford to feed them and can't sell them at all. When discussing this with your lawyer ask him if you should list the price of the horse as if it would sell at a "normal" horse sale i.e. not a breed or event sale, or if you need to list the price you or a similar specialist in horses could get. Remember, if the trustee takes him and he goes to auction, no one is going to know all his wonderful attributes so his selling price would be profoundly different imho.

Next, how much "stuff" are you going to have to list as assets that pertain to Mr. Ed? Trailers? If you have a high dollar trailer it might make someone question how much the horse is worth. Our attorney asked us to give quick sale or garage sale values to all household or other items we own that weren't vehicles. What would your 5k saddle cost if you were to buy it at a bonifide garage sale? And those show clothes are just items of clothing. I didn't see any reason to itemize one pair of pants over another just because I rode in them. Other people go to Nordstroms and pay $$$ for one piece of clothing and nobody would say boo about it on a credit card. Same difference for my show jacket.

Basically my atty said there was one trustee in my district that might know anything at all about horses and I ended up not getting that guy. The atty thinks the rest of the Trustees are not knowledgeable about horses and couldn't give a rip. They basically wouldn't really know how to dispose of the horse. I actually wouldn't have minded getting the one who was familiar with horses so he would understand that mine being lame and such really is only a pet and a liability if anything. I have no idea what it might be like in your area. I know horse business is big in Florida.

Also, if the atty tells you its a piece of cake and DH (dear horse) won't be taken, I'd get several more opinions. Also, ask the atty. if he has ever dealt with a case with horses and ask for details of the circumstances and results.

I'd be really interested in hearing what the atty tells you. My 341 is Dec 9.

[limage]

Can they just take him to sell him? Will I have the option of paying the trustee to keep him? My parents would gladly loan me money to keep him. I just want to make sure they cant take him and end up on a double decker to a mexican slaughterhouse.

I dont have an expensive trailer. I have an f250 with a loan close to its value. I have a 2002 miata that is paid off. I understand I will likely lose it.

My only other assets are my furniture and clothing. I have one piece of nice jewelry.

I'm going to my attorney shortly and will let you know what he says.

[B65]

ok

I am not an expert but here in my state i did not use homestead and was allowed XXXXX amount of dollars to exempt anything I want... I still have 11k unused, I thought in Florida you have about 1 mil worth of homestead, if you paid 7500 for him then I am sure you can use an exemption to exempt him, they put my dogs as $1.00. the thing to do is look up exemptions for your state, also look to see if your state allows federal exemptions too, if it does you can choose the one that is best for you... if not then look at the one for your state and it will tell you on there.
dont worry no one is going to hurt the horse.

Hugs B

[B65]

link

http://www.bankruptcyinformation.com/FL_exemp.htm