Bad news from our attorney (or why we should have planned ahead for BK!)

[JRScott]

Go back over your schedules. Make sure you didn't forget any expenses like car maintenance or property taxes. Check over everything and see if you can bring it down.

If you can get it down to around 100 dollars or less you'll be a 7. There have been many borderline cases come through and I've noticed the ones that are willing to fight usually come out okay.

I fear by mid year gas will creep back up. Look at what Russia is doing now and how OPEC is also cutting production. They are trying everything to drive the price back up.

[welovedis]

Jeez - and our gov't can give billions out to greedy wall streeters. This country is going to hell and we are the one's who pay for it one way or another.

This is a predicament....because once you start working as a nurse, you will be making more money and then the Trustee will increase your payments (assuming they go ahead and push you into a 13). And you don't want to not work after all the schooling. And you can bet, if they are being this tough - they are betting that you will be working when you finish school.

Right, I asked about that on the CH 13 and understand that my increased income will likely increase our payments. DH is so frustrated right now. He can work one OT shift per week (1 in one dept for 4 hours, next week in another dept for 6 hours) and he feels like what is the point? We are being completely honest and up-front and are being treated like trash because we went out to eat more often than the UST thinks is appropriate.

I looked back and I counted the times we used went out (we always used the bank card) for all of 2008 and it was 56 times. So yeah, it was at least once per week but I don't think eating out caused us to be in BK trouble. And the most we spent was $86 for dinner on our anniversary, the rest of the times it was close to $25-35.

I'm so frustrated right now but I'm not going to let them drive me loony. I have faith and feel that somehow things will work out, whether it be 7 or 13 we will make it through.

[welovedis]

How did they know you went on a couple trips if you didn't use your credit cards?

Because they saw it on our bank statement, we used out bank card (debit) so each transaction (hotel, food, gas) showed on the statement.

[Flamingo]

Looks/sounds like that this particular trustee is a creditor friendly/anti consumer individual who might be a stockholder in some of those companies that were included in your filing.
There should really be further investigations into these trustees and any individual wanting to become a trustee to weed out bad apples/personal interest in any creditor.

Note - it is the Trustee's job to ensure creditor's be paid as much as possible and for them to be in their position, there can be no conflicts of interest. Just as other executives/professionals usually cannot hold stock or have any interest in clients of the company they work for. Believe it or not, a Trustee is just doing his/her job. Just think of all the stockholders all over the US being slammed by the huge number of business and personal bankruptcies. You can't blame the trustee for that...

[danaf]

Jeez - and our gov't can give billions out to greedy wall streeters. This country is going to hell and we are the one's who pay for it one way or another.

This is a predicament....because once you start working as a nurse, you will be making more money and then the Trustee will increase your payments (assuming they go ahead and push you into a 13). And you don't want to not work after all the schooling. And you can bet, if they are being this tough - they are betting that you will be working when you finish school.

[liz417]

Hi Karen,

Sorry you are going through this mess. Your UST sounds like he is out for blood. What state do you live in? I ask because we also stated over the allowable expense for our transportation (I filled out the paperwork when gas was $4.50/gallon) and I put down $500 in gas alone! We are a ch 13 case though...
Anyway, you sound like you have a great attorney, so hang in there... ;)

[justbroke]

Sorry to hear about your trouble. Don't worry about your 15% payback. That will be worked out later. Some Trustees are itching to get people in Chapter 13s.

I just saw a newspiece on CNN which stated that despite Congress' attempt to keep people from actually filing, Bankruptcy filings went form some 800,000 in 2007 to over 1,000,000 in 2008. they are saying that people have learned how to "work" the system now that the BAPCPA changes are almost all litigated now. Lawyers and debtors are confident in filing Chapter 7s now.

You can bet that the U.S. Trustee Program sent some memo out to say be tougher and push more into Chapter 13. I'm sorry that you were caught in the crossfire.

[relief13035]

How did they know you went on a couple trips if you didn't use your credit cards?

[imoverit]

Wow! That could be me! Please keep us posted on the outcome...

[Aaaaah!]

I am sooo sorry to hear that you're having trouble. It really doesn't seem fair given your situation. As B65 said, is it not possible for you to wait 6 months until the extra income drops off?

[welovedis]

the stress is horrible! I take it your over median...? yes it may be best to try and get a good 13 deal if the payments are small.. did you leave anything out of your sch J...... you listed all your bills right? it may be worth combing over that to see if you have claimed everything you can....

good luck!

Yes, Over the median D/T DH's OT from previous months (which he no longer can get). We went over our Sch J and we did notice that our medical amt is less than we anticipate, but right now we aren't sure what to do. We are going to bring last year's bills (medical) and this year's new insurance plan with us when we meet with the attorney. We are over the normal amt for transportation because when we filed the gas prices were around $4/gallon, now they are $1.75 here. And we drive over 550 miles a week just to work & school, not including anything else so that was a big part of our transportation cost ($425/mth). The UST that amt was "ridiculous". Our attorney told her that he was appalled that she was state that and we have receipts to back it up.

And yes, it seems like we are dealing with a particularly hard-a**ed UST!

[magyar123]

Looks/sounds like that this particular trustee is a creditor friendly/anti consumer individual who might be a stockholder in some of those companies that were included in your filing.
There should really be further investigations into these trustees and any individual wanting to become a trustee to weed out bad apples/personal interest in any creditor.

[B65]

i know

the stress is horrible! I take it your over median...? yes it may be best to try and get a good 13 deal if the payments are small.. did you leave anything out of your sch J...... you listed all your bills right? it may be worth combing over that to see if you have claimed everything you can....

good luck!

[welovedis]

I am so sorry you are going through this? when did you file again.... I find it amazing they mention your trips..... how many months before your filing were thr trips.i am sorry but for me, I decided within 2 weeks to file bankruptcy and the only reason I waited for the 90 days was so i had no charges on my card, so if i twas before the 90 days of filing they cannot be sure you already knew you were going to file. A lot of people file because of bad decisions and continuing to spend knowing they are over their heads... is it an option for you to just ask for it to be dismissed and file again later down the road?? would a 13 be very expensive for you? if you only have 199 left per month maybe they could do a plan of arpund 150 per month??

We filed Nov 18, our 341 was held 12/11 and the BKT continued it to today (ironically) unless he received some additional paperwork (which he got so no meeting today).

We took one trip in July, another on Labor Day weekend and neither was charged on the CCs. We didn't use any of our CCs for more than 90 days before we filed anyway--we weren't planning on filing at all until my DH lost his OT in Sept.

I don't know about dismissing and refiling, I think we would lose the $$ we paid the lawyer and I cannot (physically, emotionally) take this any longer. I think it is going to be in our best interest to try to find a solution with a CH 13 plan that will appeal to the UST at this point.

Our attorney charges a flat rate and he said that even if the case resolves to a CH 13 we would not owe any additional money to him--that's the good news I guess!

[B65]

karen

I am so sorry you are going through this? when did you file again.... I find it amazing they mention your trips..... how many months before your filing were thr trips.i am sorry but for me, I decided within 2 weeks to file bankruptcy and the only reason I waited for the 90 days was so i had no charges on my card, so if i twas before the 90 days of filing they cannot be sure you already knew you were going to file. A lot of people file because of bad decisions and continuing to spend knowing they are over their heads... is it an option for you to just ask for it to be dismissed and file again later down the road?? would a 13 be very expensive for you? if you only have 199 left per month maybe they could do a plan of arpund 150 per month??

good luck