Automatic stay - Tmobile and GMAC

[bkmaggster]

Hello all,

I've been lurking here for the past few months while I filled out pro se paperwork for DH and myself. You've been very helpful. This is kind of complicated, so please bear with me...

TMobile-
We filed in the morning on Tuesday (6/16) and Tmobile shut off our phone service today (Friday). We have some disputed charges (they made a mistake when we modified our plan), but I called and told them I would pay the charges I wasn't disputing (I had that amount budgeted to pay them anyway.) They told me they wouldn't even give me a partial credit for the disputed charges and they wanted the full amount.

At this point I tried to negotiate with them, and told them I had filed bankruptcy, and they could either get the amount I was willing to pay them (my standard monthly fee) or I would include them in the BK and they would get nothing. It's probably more budget friendly for me to be on prepaid anyway.

In the meantime, while I was negotiating on the line, DH, trying to be helpful and get phone service back, called them and agreed to pay the full amount. They dropped negotiations with me immediately. They turned the phone service back on. Once DH and I were on the phone, I informed him that there isn't enough money in the bank to pay that amount.

He called them back and told them that, but they said they couldn't do anything about the payment - that it was already set to go through. When he got off the phone with them, they shut off our service again! Even though they are planning on withdrawing the money from our account! Then he called back and said that we were protected under the automatic stay, and they said they had no notes that I had told them about the BK when I called earlier that day - so we were SOL. I told two different agents about it!

GMAC -
Way behind on this car, got a really bad deal and owe 18k and it's only worth 9k. Plan to surrender it in BK. DH, got a phone call from GMAC and they were really abusive to him, he tried to set up a surrender and the woman just kept yelling at him to tell her where the car was so they could repo it. When he gave her the case number she said since she hadn't yet received written notification of the BK she was gong to make sure it was repo'd. She kept yelling so he hung up on her.

My understanding was the automatic stay went into effect the minute you filed, and that verbal notification was all that we need to give these people until they receive notice. Both TMobile and GMAC stated they could do whatever they wanted to us until they received written notice from the court. Is that true?

Today was a really bad day for me, after all those weeks of slogging through the paperwork and I've been so stoic, and today I just felt like it was all worth nothing if they can keep harassing us so I just broke down and sobbed.

Does it get better eventually?

[AngelinaCatHub]

Yes it does get better. You are correct, all you have to supply is the docket number (case number). They have access to PACER too. They have both broken the law, and they cannot repo the car at this time. Include both (you should already have) in the bk and the car company has to go through the court to release them from the stay if you voluntarily let it go. The phone company should have to put your phone back on, but you then are liable for current charges. I'd leave it off and purchase two Boost phones. I like the radio "peeper" feature. I only use it to talk to DW anyway, or emergencies on the road.

No one needs to take abuse. Hanging up was proper. Also, you have a computer, if you have high speed Internet (I assume everyone does now), investigate MagicJack. It works well, self installs in about five minutes and is portable to other computers. It is virtually free. $20 bucks a year. 'Hub

[bkmaggster]

Thanks, Hub.

Any idea of how I arrange for the car surrender? I really don't want to keep paying for insurance, but I don't want to get yelled at or have some jerk come make a scene and tow it away, either.

The phone thing is really a blessing in disguise. They were just huge jerks about it. In the meantime, it costs $6 for a prepaid tmobile sim card so I'm going to get two of those and pop them into our existing phones until I can afford a better solution.

I feel better today, I think.

[bkmaggster]

I was able to get a tmobile prepaid sim card for $7 and stick that in my cell phone, so I'm set for phone service.

Question: Do I need to amend the BK to include TMobile? I am no asset. Can I just serve them notice without going back down to the courthouse and amending the petition? We owe ~$250 plus whatever they are going to charge as an ETF fee (there was less than a month left on the contract).

Question #2: How do I arrange for the surrender of the car to GMAC? I want it out of here and to stop paying the insurance.

[whipster1]

Thanks, Hub.

Any idea of how I arrange for the car surrender? I really don't want to keep paying for insurance, but I don't want to get yelled at or have some jerk come make a scene and tow it away, either.

The phone thing is really a blessing in disguise. They were just huge jerks about it. In the meantime, it costs $6 for a prepaid tmobile sim card so I'm going to get two of those and pop them into our existing phones until I can afford a better solution.

I feel better today, I think.

Your attorney will arrange the surrender. They still have to get an agreement filed with the court beforehand, they can't just show up now that you filed.

[aces67]

You need to call your attorney and let them arrange for the car to be surrendered. Since you've already filed they cannot legally come and take the car.

We have a car we are surrendering. My lawyer said that first the finance company has to file papers with the judge before they can even attempt to come get it but he said that usually takes a couple of weeks.

[bkmaggster]

Pro Se

As I said in my original post we filed PRO SE. So no, I cannot have a lawyer arrange anything for me.

Question 1: Do I need to amend the BK to include TMobile? I am no asset. Can I just serve them notice without going back down to the courthouse and amending the petition? We owe ~$250 plus whatever they are going to charge as an ETF fee (there was less than a month left on the contract).

Question #2: How do I arrange for the surrender of the car to GMAC? I want it out of here and to stop paying the insurance.

[aces67]

Sorry I didn't see the Pro Se.

Just call GMAC and tell them you are ready to voluntarily surrender and see what they won't you to do.

For us we don't want anyone to see a repo man at our house so we plan to take the vehicle to them.

I'm not sure about your other question.

[bkmaggster]

Lol, GMAC paid $150 to file a motion for relief of stay. So stupid. We called to surrender it last week, but the woman was so abusive DH just hung up.

I'll call them and try again. They seem dead set on repo-ing the thing and making a scene, and that's just not going to happen.

[chad9162]

I know that this whole thing is embarrassing but you need to stand up for yourself. They know this can be embarrassing and if you care they will use it to stress you out. Some of these morons who make $10 an hour to call you think you're stealing their money and somehow screwing them. If you show them you're in charge they will back off. I had one try to guilt me, so I told him I lost my job and currently injured. I asked him how he would like me to pay. He shut up after that.

By simply sending GMAC an e-mail explaining what happened and how you are being treated will changed everything. I would site things like harassment, rudeness, hostile treatment and how you will be recording future calls. I would also advise them that you'll be sending a copy of this letter to the BBB, consumer advocacy groups, and consumer bankruptcy attorneys who handle mistreatment by creditors.

I would just send it to your local GMAC office, but forward it to some big whigs or regional offices as well. If they want to embarrass you they will if you let them. When the repo truck comes have a video camera ready and advised them that you are voluntarily giving up the vehicle but tired of harassment. If your neighbors ask what's going on and you really care what they think, then make something up like you're fighting with the dealership over the vehicle for selling you a lemon and refused to stop paying them. personally I don't care about my neighbors because they don't pay my bills. Anyways, you'd be amazed how these companies start backing off when you mention "Harassment."

Congress just passed a bill about creditor harassment and bad practices. I'd let them know you'll forwarding the complaint to your local congressman. Better yet add the congressman in the CC:

In the end of the letter tell them you just want to surrender the vehicle without harassment from them. I bet the call you quickly.

As for amending T-mobile you have to figure out have much the courts charge and if its worth it. If you discharge T-mobile, they'll probably closed your account and won't let you have one in the future. Remember a creditor or servicer doesn't have to give you a loan or service, its not a right.

[bkmaggster]

Thanks for your reply.

Tmobile actually reversed the charges to our bank account and turned the service back on, but I'm not using the service because I don't want to pay the exorbitant charges they put on the account when I changed my plan (their screw up - they'd rather I file the balance instead of give me any sort of credit...stupid. )

Because we are no asset, can I just serve them and save $29 by not adding them to the schedules?

[chad9162]

In order to include them in the BK you have to include them in your list of creditors. If they are not on the list the debt will not be discharged so you'll have to amend.

[bkmaggster]

In order to include them in the BK you have to include them in your list of creditors. If they are not on the list the debt will not be discharged so you'll have to amend.

That's what I thought, but I've seen several other posters here say that if the case was no asset, ALL debts from before the filing date are discharged, even if you forgot someone. Of course, none of these posters are here in this thread, saying it to me.

[chad9162]

Hmm I never heard that "ASSET" vs "NO ASSET" matters. I believe what I'm saying is correct because after we filed HBSC tried to screw me on a card we "thought" had a zero balance. MY attorney informed me we would have to amend to include them in BK.

I fired off a few e-mails to HSBC and they reversed all charges. Since my lawyer was going to charge me a few hundred dollars to amend I probably wouldn't have amended since there would have been any benefit.

[bkmaggster]

Hmm I never heard that "ASSET" vs "NO ASSET" matters. I believe what I'm saying is correct because after we filed HBSC tried to screw me on a card we "thought" had a zero balance. MY attorney informed me we would have to amend to include them in BK.

I don't know what is correct or not, some of it probably depends on the trustee.

The thinking that is behind the difference between asset and no asset, is that if there is no asset, the creditor couldn't have been part of a disbursement of assets anyway, so the debt is still dischargeable. I've seen this stance discussed in several threads here, but I don't want to screw anything up.