Bk and our Church

[bkadv]

I do appreciate your guys support! This is one issue that I never dreamed I'd be throwing out here, but am glad that I did. It gives me the strength to help make the decision that I know will be the best.

[keepmine]

I wouldn't think you are a divided family because you attend a different church. You're both worshipping in a venue that is comfortable. Just may be different venues!
My late inlaws were both very active Catholics but attended different churches. My FIL was very traditional and insisted on attending a church that offered a Latin Mass. They were married for nearly 50 years.
Maybe look at it as just temporary until you get everything worked out emotionally then, try attending that church again.
With something like 9MM bk's filed since 2000, I'll bet your family is not the only one in that congregation with a bk in their past.

[SinkingFast]

There is a section in the Bible that deals with one member causing the rest of the Church to fall. I can't quote Chapter and Verse, but the section has to do with the running of the Church. Basically, if one member's sin is causing others in the Church to falter as well, the sinning member should be put out. Kinda like cancer surgery. Remove the tumor so the rest of the body can thrive and live on.

But filing BK is not sinning. It's a legal right you've been provided when there is no other recourse. You made the best decisions possible at various times, taking on debt to pay others, with every good faith intent of repaying the debt. Just because you were unable to fulfill your goal of repayment, does not make you a bad person.

So if your Pastor even faintly considered this section of the Bible as his reason for speaking to you, he is not using a correct interpretation in my humble opinion.

[jane taylor]

I thought about you all the way to my office today. Filing Chapter 13 was one of the hardest decisions of my life, but in no way does it make me less of a Christian! Or ANY of us! Yes, there is a section of the Bible in Deuteronomy that deals with erasing debt after 7 years.

I was also reminded of Jesus' teaching about seeing the speck in our brother's eye while ignoring the beam in our own! There's also a passage about teachers and ministers being held to a higher standard!

Boy is it ever hard for me to pray for people who "dis" (as my kids would say!) someone who's having a rough time.

As for worshipping at another church, do what you believe the Lord to be telling you to do. God bless you and do keep in touch!

[Annika]

I'd been a member of a particular church since the day I was born (literally). My mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother had also been members. Everyone knew our family since we'd been around for so long; in fact, my husband and I had over 350 people at our wedding ... mostly church members.

When I was 22, my parents divorced (my mom kicked my dad out, and went back to her old high school boyfriend). My dad and I took it VERY hard, and really needed the church's support to help us get back on our feet.

But no one -- NO ONE -- at the church would have anything to do with us after that. The preacher came by ONE TIME to talk to my dad, but left after a few minutes, saying he'd be back. He never did.

I'd run into members of my Sunday School class in the grocery store or wherever, and wave "hi" to them, and they'd turn their backs on me.

Even though my dad and I did nothing wrong, apparently the divorce somehow turned us into the scum of the earth.

My dad remarried and found another church, but I've still got such a bad taste in my mouth from that experience, that I've never attended a church since.

If it had been just a few people snubbing me, I would've chalked it up to simple rudeness, but the whole church ... wow.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

Technically, if you owe someone you will always owe that money. But we have a forgiving god. If you have a nosy church population, I think its a good time to find a new church.

[bkadv]

I have to say it has left me very stunned. My husband and I discussed this again last night. I told him that I will be finding a new church, maybe sit in on some Bible study through the week to see what I think before attending Church. I will not lose my faith in God. Just very dissappointed. I've concluded that until you are actually faced with the decision of bk one will never understand the trauma associated, otherwise they would never judge us so hashly. I did a search on Biblical views of bk, and am left with the peace of knowing that we did the right thing.

[13inOR]

Annika, sounds like you and your family had a terrible experience.
Your father was not the one who broke up the marriage and sinned by adultery, so there should have been no reason to snub him and the rest of your family. I feel very strongly against divorce for foolish reasons, the Bible says "God hates a divorcing".. BUT also clearly states that adultery IS scriptural grounds for a divorce.
So from what I can see, your father was not the guilty party. Your mom broke the marriage vows, even in God's eyes and the Bible clearly supports that fact. Glad to hear you moved on!! : )

[jane taylor]

Good for you, bkadv! I'm so glad to hear that you haven't lost your faith in God! He knows and understands our pain and is always there whether we feel like it or not. We have had a lot of "mess" going on in our church recently and it has caused me to doubt my faith and question everything. One thing has remained constant and that is God's love. I'm not a super-religious person, but I do try to live by faith and help others.

Annika, I'm so sorry you had to go through all that. People can be so hateful in the name of religion and it breaks my heart.

You guys can always vent here!

[ducksinarow]

Running to another church is not the answer.

Granted, the way you were talked to was wrong and you are offended but leaving the church is not the right way to go about this.

Our Lord says to go to those who offend you and tell them you are offended and give them the opportunity to make things right. Please do not let this offense rile you up inside. It's satan trying to make you run. He will use anyone or anything he can to get you to stray from where you are.

I am praying that things get worked out with this situation. You might also want to mention to those that disagree with bankruptcy that even God allowed the forgiving of debts (see below).

Related scriptures:

Deuteronomy 15

1 At the end of every seven years you must cancel debts. 2 This is how it is to be done: Every creditor shall cancel the loan he has made to his fellow Israelite. He shall not require payment from his fellow Israelite or brother, because the LORD's time for canceling debts has been proclaimed. 3 You may require payment from a foreigner, but you must cancel any debt your brother owes you.

Also, a great book to read on this sort of subject is "The Bait of Satan". It really has made me look at things so much differently than I had before.

[ducksinarow]

One more thing.

We tend to place preachers and those in authority positions in the church up on pedastels and expect so much more of them than we do of ourselves. This is simply not right. They are human just like we are and they make mistakes just like anyone else. We need to always remember this when we start expecting more out of them than ourselves. The Lord says we should judge others by the same ruler we judge ourselves - as mentioned above about the plank in our eye and the splinter in someone else's eye.

[aa06a47]

I don't think anybody should feel that BK is more of a sin than cussing / adultry / alcohol abuse / ect. We are all sinners, no matter how good we think we are. The fact that you are seeking to have fellowship with fellow believers is great. Believe me, I have been to several churches, the ones that judge others for there sins may believe in Jesus, but not the Jesus of the bible. Yes, in my opinion, it is the pastures duties to mentor his flock, but not judge his flock. These are just my opinion.

[tresjolie]

I just had to say that the first reply from Keepmine made me laugh out loud!! I sooooooooooooo agree.
It is over if you want it to be over.
If other people are so concerned then they can pay your bills---when did it become any of their business? Not to shirk your own responsibility but life can throw some curve balls that no one can be prepared for...
There but for the Grace of God go I....

[SinkingFast]

I just had to say that the first reply from Keepmine made me laugh out loud!! I sooooooooooooo agree.
It is over if you want it to be over.
If other people are so concerned then they can pay your bills---when did it become any of their business? Not to shirk your own responsibility but life can throw some curve balls that no one can be prepared for...
There but for the Grace of God go I....

I have to say I'm guilty, sorta, kinda.

Our daughters have a friend, I'll call Jennifer. We got to know the friend's Mom, I'll call Carol.

When Carol and her husband split it was a messy divorce and nasty custody battle over the 2 girls. Carol won custody of both girls, but eventually, the older one decided to live with Dad. Shortly after that is when we got to know Jenny and Carol.

Evidently, the divorce and the custody battle legal fees were such that Carol had to file BK. That didn't bother us. We understood that. Told the kids that things happen to people outa their control. And it happens that sometimes people can't pay all their bills. When people get in that situation, where they can't afford to pay all their bills, the law allows them to declare it and get all the bills cleared away. Simple explanation for filing BK for our kids. Didn't want them to think Jenny and Carol were bad people. Just unfortunate in their luck.

After we got to know Carol, everything that could go wrong did. Carol discovered the guy living in the duplex next door was a Peeping Tom. So they moved into a house for rent near us.

Took Carol several months to save up to move. Carol was working 3 jobs. One full time Mon thru Fri, and rotated 2 odd jobs on the weekends. The woman got one weekend off every couple months.

They get in the rental house, and Carol's truck breaks down. Then Jenny breaks her thumb. Real bad. Required orthopedic surgery to fix it. Then Carol's truck literally dies. Repairs cost more than the truck is worth. Carol goes to a "Buy Here, Pay Here" lot to get a car. Only place that would lend her money on a car due to her credit. Then personal property taxes come due right at Christmas. Winter heating bills were outrageous. Then the Landlord evicted them. He is just a quirky sort. Runs every tenant off after a short period of time.

Carol and Jenny have to move again. Several rounds of problems with the cheapo car. Jenny breaks her leg playing soccer. Another surgery to fix that. Every time we turned around, Carol was having some sort of problem. One right after another. Not counting fighting with Ex about kids, and visitation, and child support payments, and such.

I remember telling Hubby one time, after the umpteenth aweful thing that had happened to them, that one person cannot have that much bad luck. Some of it has to be self created.

Boy was I wrong about that!! I am most definitely walking a mile in Carol's shoes now.

I can't remember the last time we had one WHOLE GOOD WEEK where we make it thru 7 consecutive days without something crappy happening.

People who haven't been here cannot truely understand what we are going thru.

[bkadv]

Well. It's Sunday morning and I chose not to go to Church today. I'm terribly disappointed, and in between thoughts on what to do. My husband did go this morning. He plays bass guitar in the Church group and has other duties he says he will fulfill. It's our assumption that because we are active members who strive to do better...may just be why we are under such scrutiny. That in itself is wrong, but I do appreciate everyone's input. I'm sure next Sunday will dawn a bright new day, and please everyone keep me in your prayers.

Thanks!