Very confused here....

[kensinlimbo]

Here is the situation...i would very much appreciate any and all help in figuring this out.

We are in Michigan....we just got married back in December. My wife bought a new house (with some help from me, but not a lot) which she closed on in November and moved into in December just before we decided to get married.

I filed a chapter 7 and was discharged almost 2 years ago. She is now looking at filing her own BK since her other house is on the market for 6 months now without a single showing. She has stopped making the payments on it as it is big-time underwater. She has a 1st and 2nd both with BOA.
She talked to the lawyer and was told she will have to include my income in her BK filing.
Does that sound correct? I just filed so how can i be included in someone else's filing?

I am retired with a yearly pension income of 36k and a couple debts still (truck payment and back federal taxes). She still works and makes about 44k per year.

Did we make a mistake by getting married? Can i really be dragged into this too? How can they hold me responsible for the bills she has including the mortgages on 2 houses...when i am not on any of them? Her and i have no joint debt....all her debt (except for the new house) was incurred before we met.

Any help from the brainiacs out there would be great....

[747LUVR]

I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that any real estate aquired within 1215 days of filing can throw a wrench in the whole procedure. I dont see how you can be brought into it b/c 8 yrs have not passed since your own filing.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Hey man, you are married. You submit income on her behalf. You cannot and may not be in bk, but your income is part of her income. She may lose both houses, (I don't know homestead laws in your state, you check), but do YOU think you made a mistake? If so, I would not tell that to the Mrs.

I doubt your pittance will hurt her. Have her put down you payments on the property you now BOTH have in common. It is true it is her bk, but your expenses and contributions must be accounted. 'Hub

[kensinlimbo]

Not real sure what you are trying to say here Cat....to clarify...i asked if maybe we made a mistake by getting married when we did versus waiting till her BK was discharged. Had nothing to do with not wanting to be married.

What does your comment "I doubt your PITTANCE will hurt her" mean exactly?

[AngelinaCatHub]

Not real sure what you are trying to say here Cat....to clarify...i asked if maybe we made a mistake by getting married when we did versus waiting till her BK was discharged. Had nothing to do with not wanting to be married.

What does your comment "I doubt your PITTANCE will hurt her" mean exactly?

No malice or insult implied, and I apologize if taken that way. Your income is not a great deal in this day and time. I get less than you every first of the year and then SS. The small amount you input into the marriage should not change her status. Not at all. She may lose one or both of the houses as the Judge has the authority to determine the ability to reaffirm one mortgage or take whatever she has in equity of either or both houses. (as well as the Trustee). Have her include your payments on your vehicles. Since your contribution must be listed, you have not choice (or she does not). As far as your part, you are not part of the bk except your contributions minus your liabilities.

Again, sorry about any misunderstanding. (However, don't tell the Mrs.) LOL. 'Hub

EDIT: To add on, yes probably it would have been better to wait. But not a big deal. What you had before your marriage is yours. What you buy together now belongs to each and both.

[kensinlimbo]

Thanks for the reply Cat....i did indeed take your first reply as a bit of an insult...so thank-you for the clarification.

I guess i dont understand why you think my $36,000 per year pension income is such a non-factor and such a "small amount i input into the marriage" considering its just a few thousand less than she makes per year.

She is far underwater on the house she is letting go and since she just now purchased this one there is little, if any, equity here either. Would a judge really make her give up both houses?

[AngelinaCatHub]

Thanks for the reply Cat....i did indeed take your first reply as a bit of an insult...so thank-you for the clarification.

I guess i dont understand why you think my $36,000 per year pension income is such a non-factor and such a "small amount i input into the marriage" considering its just a few thousand less than she makes per year.

She is far underwater on the house she is letting go and since she just now purchased this one there is little, if any, equity here either. Would a judge really make her give up both houses?

Ken, I guess I am just off my meds today. No it is not small. I put 35 years heart into a career and got downsized so I get $450 a month, then I have a Trust less than your. Considering the average mean salary of two people today is about 70K, that what you submit would not change her status. Now what I mean is, the Judge has final say, the Trustee owns her property at the time of filing. Paying through is the advised way to keep a house. Two houses probably would not be allowed.

Your original question is my opinion only, and that was, to wait till she is discharged. My second opinion is, I don't think it would matter that much with what you have stated.

I have asked a forum friend to chime in for you as I seem to have botched your question and as a newbie you are, please forgive my callousness. I talk to so many who have been here for longer than you and it just ran off. My bad. 'Hub

[kensinlimbo]

No problem Hub.......i thank you for the replies either way. We all have days like that...
Not sure what career you had that ended after so long but i feel for you about the downsizing.

I put in 31 years at Ford and was pretty much forced out when i was only 48 and not nearly ready to retire so i have some bitterness there too.

I guess what i would really like to know is......will she be able to get out from under the one house thats so far under water while still keeping the one we now live in? Or will the court not let her (and me) keep our present home because she let the other one go? She tried everything to move it....its still on the market....she offered BOA a deed-in-lieu...
Its not like she is trying to screw anyone....just in a lousy situation in a state thats just awful to try selling a home in.

[AngelinaCatHub]

I was 35 years with NCR Corp. No plaque, no gold watch, only a kiss-off.

About the houses; the one she would be well to let it go as an Albatross and drain of her resources. The main house, "Pay Through". They want your money not more empty houses. Reason is if things get really bad, she/you can walk away without a Judgment.

A great recourse is the C7 Nolo book from Nolo Press. It is about 25 bucks download from nolo.com. It is pdf format and printable.

If you read it cover to cover, you could go pro se and save a bunch. Bk costs an average of 1K to 3K depending on location and if it is a simple case. Yours sounds fairly cut and dried.

Make sure you bring your marriage license with you to the 341 meeting if SS and DL has not been changed yet.

I will be traveling with you as a friend while you go through this. Expect on both parts, some stress, and anxiety. This is normal. It gets worse then it gets better. A very common feeling.

This place is the most valuable resource as Mrs. and I made every mistake possible due to ignorance. Cost us a lot, but we learned and we stay to help others. You have a personal mentor as well as hundreds of others. You are my Friend. 'Hub

[BAR]

Cant she file chapter 7 seperate from her husband? I thought I had seen that somewhere on the forum here?

[AngelinaCat]

Cant she file chapter 7 seperate from her husband? I thought I had seen that somewhere on the forum here?

Hi BAR. She will have to file separately from her husband, because he filed a CH7 and was discharged two years ago. He has to wait out a full eight years post discharge before filing again. I believe that the issue here is total household income and how to list it.

[BAR]

Ok I understand now, thanks for clarifying that.

[newbie2]

Ken, I am in Michigan and have a very good idea of how the trustees work the "non filing spouse & income" equation. Your attorney was correct, your income will have to be included in your wifes filing. However, you are also allowed to back out your own personal expenses, so that the amount of money "contributed to debtors household" is what will be the factor in deciding disposable income.

For example: Your gross income is $3000 per month. You have $2500 per month in your own expenses. $500 per month would be left to be contributed to household income.

[kensinlimbo]

Thanks for the info newbie2.....do you have any idea what sort of things i can claim as expenses?

My main worry is that my income will prevent her from being able to file the chapter 7 and force her into a 13 which for obvious reasons she does not want.
Thus i want to seriously reduce what can be counted against her.....

[justbroke]

I just want to add the following. First, let me say that if you married someone you love, then it is never a mistake to have married! I hope that you two are enjoying your new life together.

Whenever you are married, and regardless of whether a "non-filing" spouse has filed recently, the income is still included. However, you are able to "offset" the filing spouse's income based on what is called the marital adjustment.

So long as you don't share too many "joint" debts, the filing spouse (your wife) will get to take deductions for things that you pay for that are just "your" debts. For example, say that your combined income is $60,000/year and that's $5,000/month. Let's say that she has credit cards solely in her name, you have cards solely in your name (and pay $1,000/month on them), and you have joint cards (that you pay together at $500/month on them). That $1,000 month that you pay gets "excluded" from the income calculation using the marital adjustment in the Means Test. Additionally, if you had a vehicle or other debt, that could be "adjusted" from the joint income. For example, a car that you -- the non-debtor spouse -- pay for and it's $500/month, would also be deducted. You could easily shave that hypothetical $5,000 month down to $3,500/month quite easily. Also remember that you count for purposes of household size as well.

However, if you have mostly joint debt, the marital adjustment won't help much.