What to Expect After Filing

[hmsmith]

The question is very common at a 341. He probably asks everybody.

We were asked this as well. I sat through others as well and although I don't recall if he asked every single person, I know he asked most of us. I think it's a very common question.

Anyway, congrats to joining the 60 day club!

[AngelinaCat]

No, he only asked me. I sat through several others before me and not one other person was asked that.

Then, as I said, it's up to the individual trustee. Perhaps its also up to who you are. If you are fairly young, and the people you observed were older..... Just a thought....

[ksgirl38]

The question is very common at a 341. He probably asks everybody.

No, he only asked me. I sat through several others before me and not one other person was asked that.

[AngelinaCat]

Oddly I got asked about this at my 341. The trustee asked if I was expecting any inheritance in the next 6 months and then reminded me that I had to report it. Not sure why. The only explanation I can come up with is that my case was so simple that he felt he had to ask me something and this is the best he could come up with. Weird.

We were asked the same question. I believe it to be a standard question. It is up to the individual trustee as to whether it is asked or not.

[LadyInTheRed]

Oddly I got asked about this at my 341. The trustee asked if I was expecting any inheritance in the next 6 months and then reminded me that I had to report it. Not sure why. The only explanation I can come up with is that my case was so simple that he felt he had to ask me something and this is the best he could come up with. Weird.

The question is very common at a 341. He probably asks everybody.

[ksgirl38]

Maybe it was inheritance,not lottery winnings that she said. I know I asked about the lottery and then inheritance came up in the conversation. It doesn't matter, I don't play the lottery (much) and I don't have any rich relatives.

Oddly I got asked about this at my 341. The trustee asked if I was expecting any inheritance in the next 6 months and then reminded me that I had to report it. Not sure why. The only explanation I can come up with is that my case was so simple that he felt he had to ask me something and this is the best he could come up with. Weird.

[ksgirl38]

An inheritance is different than lottery winnings. If you are entitled to an inheritance on your date of filing or become entitled to an inheritance within six months of your filing date, any non exempt portion of the inheritance is an asset of the bankruptcy estate, regardless of when you receive it. If you are entitled to an inheritance and the trustee wants it, your case will stay open until the inheritance is received, even if that is longer than 6 months after the BK filing. I think you may have misunderstood the trustee. What is important is when you become entitled to the inheritance (i.e., when the person you are inheriting from dies), not the date you actually receive the inheritance. The trustee could abandon the inheritance and let the case close, but they can also keep it open until the estate is fully distributed, even if that is years from now.

Maybe it was inheritance,not lottery winnings that she said. I know I asked about the lottery and then inheritance came up in the conversation. It doesn't matter, I don't play the lottery (much) and I don't have any rich relatives.

[basketsbears]

LadyInTheRed asked me to look at this thread. I have to agree with her assessments:

1. A lottery ticket purchased after the date the 7 is filed is not an asset of the estate therefore any winnings from the same belong to the debtor and do not have to be reported. See 11 USC 541 for a list of assets that become property of the estate. Lottery tickets, if they did not exist before filing, are not amongst the list. Nor does the 341 hearing date have any impact on this.

2. In the context of a Chapter 7 the Code does not imposes a duty upon a debtor to report a change in circumstances that happens post filing that the debtor did not know was going to happen before filing. See 11 USC 541 which describes the duties of a debtor. However, should the UST find out about the winnings before the date to object to a discharge, I could see the filing of a Motion to Dismiss based upon 707(b)(3) "totality of the circumstances" - however, I doubt it.

3. The same is true for a higher paying job. If the debtor was not aware of the new job pre filing and obtains the job post filing there is no duty to report.

4. An entitlement to an inheritance that arises within 180 days (6 months) post petition is an asset of the estate regardless of how long it takes to settle the probate. So, if you have a rich uncle, you want him to kick the proverbial bucket on the 181st day after you file.

Lady, I hope that covers it. Good job.

Des.

LadyinRed - thanks so much for watching out for all of us!

Des - thanks so much for the information. Now, since I declined the job, I need to get some lottery tickets! ;)

Lynn

[pamkev]

Thanks Des and Red for clearing this up now if I would only win the lottery LOL

[LadyInTheRed]

Thanks, Des!

[despritfreya]

LadyInTheRed asked me to look at this thread. I have to agree with her assessments:

1. A lottery ticket purchased after the date the 7 is filed is not an asset of the estate therefore any winnings from the same belong to the debtor and do not have to be reported. See 11 USC 541 for a list of assets that become property of the estate. Lottery tickets, if they did not exist before filing, are not amongst the list. Nor does the 341 hearing date have any impact on this.

2. In the context of a Chapter 7 the Code does not imposes a duty upon a debtor to report a change in circumstances that happens post filing that the debtor did not know was going to happen before filing. See 11 USC 541 which describes the duties of a debtor. However, should the UST find out about the winnings before the date to object to a discharge, I could see the filing of a Motion to Dismiss based upon 707(b)(3) "totality of the circumstances" - however, I doubt it.

3. The same is true for a higher paying job. If the debtor was not aware of the new job pre filing and obtains the job post filing there is no duty to report.

4. An entitlement to an inheritance that arises within 180 days (6 months) post petition is an asset of the estate regardless of how long it takes to settle the probate. So, if you have a rich uncle, you want him to kick the proverbial bucket on the 181st day after you file.

Lady, I hope that covers it. Good job.

Des.

[LadyInTheRed]

Our attorney told us the same thing, six months from the date of filing. When we went to our 341 meeting, the trustee brought up about inheritance and to make sure we report it if we get it withing six months of our filing date. I don't know if it could very by district or state. There was a gentleman before us who had gotten a different job after filing. He made about $4 more per hour. The trustee didn't say much about it.

We waited about 7 weeks for our 341 and I was glad to get it over with! Smooth sailing for us though!

An inheritance is different than lottery winnings. If you are entitled to an inheritance on your date of filing or become entitled to an inheritance within six months of your filing date, any non exempt portion of the inheritance is an asset of the bankruptcy estate, regardless of when you receive it. If you are entitled to an inheritance and the trustee wants it, your case will stay open until the inheritance is received, even if that is longer than 6 months after the BK filing. I think you may have misunderstood the trustee. What is important is when you become entitled to the inheritance (i.e., when the person you are inheriting from dies), not the date you actually receive the inheritance. The trustee could abandon the inheritance and let the case close, but they can also keep it open until the estate is fully distributed, even if that is years from now.

[Tater]

I asked my attorney about this as a joke and she said anything won within 6 months of filing has to be reported.

Our attorney told us the same thing, six months from the date of filing. When we went to our 341 meeting, the trustee brought up about inheritance and to make sure we report it if we get it withing six months of our filing date. I don't know if it could very by district or state. There was a gentleman before us who had gotten a different job after filing. He made about $4 more per hour. The trustee didn't say much about it.

We waited about 7 weeks for our 341 and I was glad to get it over with! Smooth sailing for us though!

[LadyInTheRed]

I asked my attorney about this as a joke and she said anything won within 6 months of filing has to be reported.

Attorneys have been known to be wrong. If you are lucky enough to win the lottery in the next six months, I suggest you ask your attorney for authority supporting her position and/or get a second opinion. What makes up the bankruptcy estate is defined by 11 USC § 541: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/541. The only things that become part of the BK estate because you became entitled to them within 6 months after filing are an inheritance, life insurance proceeds, death benefits, or marital property and divorce settlements. That doesn't mean the trustee might try to get his/her hands on lottery winnings for a ticket purchased after filing (note my use of the word "should"), but if they do the debtor's attorney should fight it.

This applies to a Chap 7. If a Chap 13 debtor wins the lottery during the plan, that is income that the trustee can take if it results in increased DMI.

I had thought everything was the day of filing. But, in another thread I posted that I had been offered another job where my income would have almost doubled. My attorney said we would be in a 13, as we are borderline Ch 7 now. When I asked what the payments to a 13 would be she said whatever my "raise" would be which would have been a couple of thousand more monthly. I would not have started the position until mid August a few days after 341 is scheduled. My attorney told me I could not delay the start of the position because of 341 and I said I wasn't doing that, but that is when the position would start. I declined the position.

So, I guess I am saying if you win a lottery,after filing, even before you close, which would be A LOT more than my "raise" you could still end up in a Ch 13.

You were offerred the job after you filed BK, right? If so, I disagree with your attorney. Members have posted on this board about getting higher paying jobs between their filing date and their 341. When they told the trustee about it at the 341 when asked if anything has changed, the trustee congratulated them and wished them luck. I have read of this more than once.

I'm not an attorney and am giving this information based on reading the law, this board and other sources. I encourage you to do your own research and carefully question your attorney about this advice.

Your bankruptcy petition is a snap shot of your situation on the date you filed. The law is designed to prevent somebody who knows they are going to get a windfall or huge increase in income from abusing the system by filing Chap 7 before receiving the windfall and raise so that they don't have to pay their creditors.

ETA: I just PM'd one of our attorney members and asked him to correct me if I am off base in my statements. I don't like to argue with the advice people receive from their own attorneys, but I also don't like to see people rely on incorrect advice.

[ksgirl38]

Actually, as long as you buy the ticket after your filing date, winning the lottery before the 341 should not be an issue.

I asked my attorney about this as a joke and she said anything won within 6 months of filing has to be reported.