What do I say to them (CA)???

[matthewsmom]

I'm at the point where I am going to file. Gathering everything, but haven't consulted w/an attorney yet. I just stopped paying my CCs. What do I tell them when they call for payment?? I'm not sure I should say anything until I actually file, KWIM?? Any hints because I'm expecting the calls to start fairly soon.....

[SinkingFast]

You're current on your payments so you've got time. You may not hear from any of your Creditors for at least a couple of months after you stop making payments.

Keep in mind if and when you do talk with them, they are a Debt Collector. They can use anything you say to them to their advantage. So choose what you say to them on the phone very carefully.

If you choose to talk to your Creditors, don't promise to pay anything. Don't say, "I'll send $10 by Tuesday", or "The payment's in the mail."

Personally, I wouldn't mention BK until after you have Consulted with several attnys and picked one to retain.

If you don't have Caller ID, call your phone company and add it. Don't answer the phone for phone numbers you do not recognize. Or, get an answering machine and screen calls that way.

[Credit Hater]

I'll share with you my experience:

They started calling after 60 days late, asking if I had sent a payment yet. I told them no that I'm not making enough money now and may be out of a job soon....even mentioned that I might have to file bk (looking back now, I wish I hadn't said that) When 90 days late, the calls were a lot more frequent, multiple times during the day, almost everyday. I asked them why do I have to keep repeating my situation to 2 or 3 different people almost every day. One person told me it was their job to bug me everyday until I actually filed bk and could give them my attorney's number. I said thanks for being honest and paid 15 bucks for a number change

One creditor I talked to after I was about 4 or 5 months late grilled me like crazy. I was trying to get them to work with me, was unemployed at the time and told them I would start sending them what I could afford to after I found a job and asked them if they would please stop charging me over the limit fees because I never went over my limit (from spending). She started a series of questions trying to sum up my monthly costs. I realized this afterwards. I thought she was trying to figure a payment that I could make. After realizing what had just happened, I cursed her out and told them they won't get a dime from me now since they won't try to work with me.

Change your number if you can and save yourself the headache. And don't tell them you're filing. Keep 'em guessing. It doesn't matter because your credit score is going to go down anyway. What ever you do, DON'T answer questions about your monthly income or bills, just say "no comment". It could come back on you later down the road if they try to object or something. Most of them are hateful and could care less about your situation and will treat you like dirt. If you do talk to them, be prepared to get hateful right back. You could even start talking about completely off the wall subjects, tell them a joke, act like someone seriously crazy, lol. Have some fun with them if you have a good sense of humor

[ekelly4200]

I'm at the point where I am going to file. Gathering everything, but haven't consulted w/an attorney yet. I just stopped paying my CCs. What do I tell them when they call for payment?? I'm not sure I should say anything until I actually file, KWIM?? Any hints because I'm expecting the calls to start fairly soon.....

I guess I was one of the unlucky ones. I got calls from several different creditors the DAY after my payment was due. Particulary relentless was Dell. Majority was within the 1st month of the missed payment and by 2 months missed all had called. Sunday morning, nite, several times a day. I had already retained an lawyer and gave them contact info. Only now that most accounts are now in collections have the calls stopped. But of course Capitol one's NCO henchmen now call, usually at 8:55 pm everynite. When all kept calling after I gave them lawyer info I would give the phone to my 18 month old to answer lol.

[SinkingFast]

Good points, CH.

If you decide to answer the phone, they will try, at some point, to gather info from you. How much money is coming into the Household. How much goes out for various bills.

I didn't answer any of those types of questions for any CC's but I did give our mortgage Lender that info. We had a contingent offer on the house and the Lender was trying to Foreclose. We were trying to dodge the Foreclosure and get the house sold. I remember the Rep I spoke with said, "You really don't have any money left to make payments to us."

Some websites will say "You need to keep the lines of communication open."

Just remember, anything you tell them, they can take that info and turn it right around and use it against you. So be very careful what you do say, if you choose to talk to them at all.

[IOIOIO]

I'm in almost the same position as matthewsmom, lagging behind by a month or two. Here's the plan I've been thinking of following (I think the idea came from the Nolo Ch.7 book), so please let me know if there are any flaws or if you can think of any refinements:

I'm not going to dodge all the phone calls, but try to take at least one from each creditor. Since I have the right to avoid identity theft, before I say a word I'll verify with the caller the full account number, name, address, and the password on the account that I substituted for mother's maiden name a long time ago. I'll say something like there's issues surrounding this account, that all communications must be in writing, and never to call again, only communicate by mail. I'll then send a letter to the corporate address informing them they should never call, but only communicate in writing. If they didn't authenticate with the password, I'll also file a police report regarding suspected wire fraud. If it's the second (or greater) call regarding the same account (and I've already sent the letter), I'll file a police report for harrassing phone calls then give that police report number to the phone company to initiate a complaint and authorize them to trace the caller to report that number to the police department. I did this once before for a different kind of harrassing phone call--the phone company requires a police report number before they'll take action.

Whatever satisfaction I feel, my goal here is not to somehow "one up" the jerks but to put an end to the phone calls as quickly as possible while maintaining the integrity of my position as a negotiating person in case some judge or trustee ever has to see that. If creditors are entitled to send me dunning letters to their heart's content, that's reasonable, but if there's a way to limit or stop that too (before filing bk, that is) I'd be interested, if it didn't somehow hurt my position or reputation. The worst part of my plan is that perhaps the phone company, but definitely the police since I'll have to go in personally, will know what's going on: that I'm a person in an embarrassing kind of legal trouble even if I'm honest. The one time in the past I had to go to the police about repeated harassing phone calls, the cop taking the report laughed and remarked about bill collectors. It wasn't that time, but this time the human being taking my report will know my situation because of the number of creditors who will be calling me, and that's embarassing.

[GoingDown]

I'm in almost the same position as matthewsmom, lagging behind by a month or two. Here's the plan I've been thinking of following (I think the idea came from the Nolo Ch.7 book), so please let me know if there are any flaws or if you can think of any refinements:

I'm not going to dodge all the phone calls, but try to take at least one from each creditor. Since I have the right to avoid identity theft, before I say a word I'll verify with the caller the full account number, name, address, and the password on the account that I substituted for mother's maiden name a long time ago. I'll say something like there's issues surrounding this account, that all communications must be in writing, and never to call again, only communicate by mail. I'll then send a letter to the corporate address informing them they should never call, but only communicate in writing. If they didn't authenticate with the password, I'll also file a police report regarding suspected wire fraud. If it's the second (or greater) call regarding the same account (and I've already sent the letter), I'll file a police report for harrassing phone calls then give that police report number to the phone company to initiate a complaint and authorize them to trace the caller to report that number to the police department. I did this once before for a different kind of harrassing phone call--the phone company requires a police report number before they'll take action.

Whatever satisfaction I feel, my goal here is not to somehow "one up" the jerks but to put an end to the phone calls as quickly as possible while maintaining the integrity of my position as a negotiating person in case some judge or trustee ever has to see that. If creditors are entitled to send me dunning letters to their heart's content, that's reasonable, but if there's a way to limit or stop that too (before filing bk, that is) I'd be interested, if it didn't somehow hurt my position or reputation. The worst part of my plan is that perhaps the phone company, but definitely the police since I'll have to go in personally, will know what's going on: that I'm a person in an embarrassing kind of legal trouble even if I'm honest. The one time in the past I had to go to the police about repeated harassing phone calls, the cop taking the report laughed and remarked about bill collectors. It wasn't that time, but this time the human being taking my report will know my situation because of the number of creditors who will be calling me, and that's embarassing.

That's a huge amount of effort on your part, and I think that it might backfire. Like you said, it might be embarassing for you, and it might, at the very least, make the cops a little ticked off at you for filing all of these reports. You have very little to gain from this, and it is simply not worth the effort.

Just get caller I.D., and let your answering machine answer any callers you don't want to speak to.

Or if the sound of them ringing your phone mercilessly bothers you that much, then get a pay as you go cell phone and cancel your other phone.

You have to be careful about who you give your new number to, because if the creditor calls your relatives or friends looking for you, they might not know that they aren't supposed to give them your new number.

[IOIOIO]

I don't have caller id, but I can screen. No option to change phone number (can't explain). Problem is, I'm expecting a *lot* of calls once they start. The Nolo book says that they don't have a right to call you if you tell them in writing not to. I'm just trying to figure out what to do in case they violate that. I don't mind doing the work up front ONCE, if it puts a stop to the calling.

I'm also concerned about doing nothing when they call instead of responding. That legitimates their contacting everyone they can who they think is connected to me in some way, claiming they're trying to contact me. Getting hold of my family and friends would be worse than doing the work of answering them. In the minor legal situations I've ever been involved in, lawyers have always advised to make an answer when contacted in some way. I'm not sure I see this kind of case as an exception, though it sure would be easier to do nothing, if that's the best strategy.

[lrprn]

I don't have caller id, but I can screen. [edit] it sure would be easier to do nothing, if that's the best strategy.

What writing letters to your creditors that are driving you nuts with frequent calls or contacting your family and friends can do is forbid them to call you at work ("employer doesn't allow personal calls") and forbid them to contact your family and friends (which they must abide by if you make the request in writing). Send the letters by registered mail to ensure they were received and so you have proof they received your letters.

Unfortunately until you file, NOTHING forbids them from contacting you at home or on your cell phone as often as they want to. Get a good answering machine and let it screen your calls. If you plan to use a lawyer to file, once you give them a retainer, you can choose to tell the creditor you plan to file if it's not going to be more than a few months until you do file. That typically stops the calls for 4-6 weeks, but if you still haven't filed, the calls will start again.

Remember - there is NO ADVANTAGE OR ANY PENALTY to you if you don't answer creditor calls, but there *can* be a penalty to you if you answer the call and say the wrong thing to one of them that they record.

[IOIOIO]

Page 34 of the most recent edition of the Nolo Press book "How To File For Chapter 7 Bankruptcy" by Elias, Renauer, and Leonard says:

"You don't need bankruptcy to stop your creditors from harassing you. Many people begin thinking about bankruptcy when their creditors start phoning them at home and on the job. Federal law prohibits this activity by debt collectors once you tell the creditor, in writing, that you don't want to be called. And if you orally tell debt collectors that you refuse to pay, they cannot, by law, contact you except to send one last letter making a final demand for payment before filing a lawsuit. While just telling the creditor to stop usually works, you may have to send a written follow-up letter."

The book provides a sample follow-up letter on page 23.

I based my plan on this information. Has anyone actually tried this? Am I missing something?

EDIT: The relevant law is 15 USC sec 1692c(c) and it's at:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode15/usc_sec_15_00001692---c000-.html

The whole subchapter is interesting, at:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode15/usc_sup_01_15_10_41_20_V.html

[lrprn]

[edits from earlier posts] I'm not going to dodge all the phone calls, but try to take at least one from each creditor. ... I'm also concerned about doing nothing when they call instead of responding. ... I based my plan on this information.(from the Nolo book to not contact creditors but write letters instead). Has anyone actually tried this? Am I missing something?

I'm confused, IO....you said in your first and second post that you were deliberately accepting phone calls from creditors. That's why the advice you are getting is about NOT taking those calls and sending letters to stop the calls instead....which is what your Nolo book is saying....which you now seem to be saying you intend to do. (Head scratching) I have to ask what am *I* missing?

Here's the best online source I've found about dealing with collection calls before filing bk - http://fair-debt-collection.com/sear...ion-calls.html . There's sample letters here too.

Good luck - hope whatever you do will help avoid being driven crazy by collection calls before you file.

[IOIOIO]

The Nolo book implies that you have to first receive debt collection phone calls before you can write the letter that tells them to stop calling you. I don't mind answering the phone ONCE per creditor if that enables me to then stop all subsequent phone calls. As I originally said, "I'm not going to dodge all the phone calls, but try to take at least one from each creditor."

GoingDown replied that this would be a huge effort, but my concern is that doing less (taking zero phone calls from each creditor) would have a worse consequence. You replied that "until you file, NOTHING forbids them from contacting you at home or on your cell phone as often as they want to." I suppose I could write the notification letter based only on answering machine messages, but I do need to verify which account they're calling about so that my letter can be legally specific.

[CAB_44]

Well....here's what I did....
While scanning my cell phone to find a new ringtone, I came upon a ringtone that sounds like an operator saying this...
"this is not a working number and is no longer in service, this is a recording..."
And I can tell ya...it was like the cartoon where you see the light bulb going on....LOLLOL....
So.......I took the cell phone over to my answering machine and recorded that ringtone onto my answering machine over and over again......brilliant.....hahahahaha
I got two phone calls from creditors after I did that.....and they didn't even listen to it the second time it played....they hung up.....it was HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TOO funny!!!!!
Can't wait until tomorrow when they call again....all 10 of them.......
HAHAHAHA~
So, anyway..... I did have to tell my kids to ignore it and leave a message if they needed to...I would get it.....
I can change the message back to another one recorded by me, and store this one so I can switch back and forth....
I was proud of myself....we'll see what happens........

[GoingDown]

The Nolo book implies that you have to first receive debt collection phone calls before you can write the letter that tells them to stop calling you. I don't mind answering the phone ONCE per creditor if that enables me to then stop all subsequent phone calls. As I originally said, "I'm not going to dodge all the phone calls, but try to take at least one from each creditor."

GoingDown replied that this would be a huge effort, but my concern is that doing less (taking zero phone calls from each creditor) would have a worse consequence. You replied that "until you file, NOTHING forbids them from contacting you at home or on your cell phone as often as they want to." I suppose I could write the notification letter based only on answering machine messages, but I do need to verify which account they're calling about so that my letter can be legally specific.

If these are the ORIGINAL CREDITORS calling you, then there is really nothing you can do to stop them from calling you, other than changing your phone number, because they are not subject to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA). And unfortunately, if you don't speak to them when they call you on the phone, they are allowed to do what is called "Skip Tracing" to try to find you, and this includes calling your relatives, neighbors, employers, and friends.

This is where your idea of answering the phone at least once for each creditor makes sense, if you want to keep them from calling your relatives, etc. By answering the phone and identifying yourself one time for each creditor, you let them know that they have the correct phone number for you and they have no legitimate reason to call your relatives to try to find your phone number and contact info. But remember that anything you say on the phone to them can and will be used against you later on. After you have identified yourself, simply tell them to put everything in writing because you do not want to talk to them about this matter over the phone and then hang up. They will call back, but then just stop answering their phone calls. And if you don't already have caller-I.D., then get it. It is cheap and worth every penny it will cost you so that you will be able to see who is calling you and you will be able to decide whether or not you want to answer each phone call.

However, if these are THIRD PARTY DEBT COLLECTION AGENCIES calling you, then simply writing a letter telling them to stop calling you will usually get them to stop calling you. I use the word "usually" because most of them will follow the FDCPA law and stop calling you after they receive your written request to stop calling you. It has worked for me each and every time I have done it. Of course, there are some unethical and corrupt collection agencies that will ignore your written request and they will violate the FDCPA by continuing to call you.

And this is none of my business, but your fear of your family finding out about your debt problems is probably not healthy. I let my family know about what was going on in my life and they have been very helpful. Letting my family know about what debt collectors do has been very beneficial because now if any debt collector calls them they know enough to tell the debt collector to f**k off (my family has no problem swearing over the phone at debt collectors) and to never call them again, and they never give the debt collector any information about me. Forewarned is forearmed.

[IOIOIO]

If these are the ORIGINAL CREDITORS calling you, then there is really nothing you can do to stop them from calling you...

That all makes sense. I think I have it straight now: keeping the idea of "debt collector" separate from "creditor." My only concern would be that even once I take that one phone call from from the creditor, they'll still try to pressure me by bothering everyone they can determine is connected to me because I'll be ducking all their subsequent phone calls. I'm trying to figure out if there are any constraints on the creditor once they've made personal contact with me. I'm prepared to deal with the debt collectors by knowing the fair debt collections act, but of course I'm resigned to not being able to do much about debt collectors willing to violate the law. I'm guessing suing them under the act isn't feasible.

I'm confident people connected to me can handle it, and that I can deal with their being bothered on my account. I'm just trying to minimize the grief.