Can you lose Homestead wildcard exemption by moving?

[ValleYum]

Uh, no you can't. Did you miss reading this part of your link:

If you live in a state where you may substitute the federal exemptions

If you click on the link, it lists the states that you can do this in. Florida isn't listed. In other words, you can't use any type of federal exemptions in Florida, supplemental or otherwise. Either way, the Federal Homestead exemption or the wildcard from not using it can't be used either way. As was implied by a poster.

You can only use the Supplemental Federal exemptions when you can not or do not use the Federal exemption set. So as JB noted above, you do get to use the Federal Supplemental exemptions in Florida.

I learned about these from our attorney when hubby and I were debating using Washington's exemption set because then we would have had to use the Federal supplemental exemptions to cover hubby's railroad retirement benefits.

[tobee43]

We've had this argument before. You are just as wrong now as you were then.

You can ONLY use Federal Exemptions in states that ALLOW IT. NJ does, Florida does not. Many of the state exemptions may be similar or the same as the Federal Exemptions, but they are still considered the state's exemptions.

You cannot intermingle the two. If the state exemptions does not have a homestead exemption and does not allow the use of Federal exemptions (to be clear, it is either/or not both like you are implying), then there is no homestead exemption. Period. If the state that does not allow the choice of using federal exemptions and does not allow the conversion of any unused homestead exemptions to a wildcard, then you don't get to use the federal homestead exemption as a wildcard. Like you implied.

Links have been posted, especially in regards to Florida, that prove that one cannot use the federal exemptions in states that do not allow it.

As I stated before, and got from the Federal Exemptions list, up to $10,825 of the unused Federal Homestead exemption can be used as a wildcard. But ONLY if you are using Federal Exemptions and ONLY in states that allow the choice. If you go with the State's Exemptions in state's that allow the choice, you forfeit the ability to convert the unused $10,825 portion of the homestead exemption to a wildcard.

And $10,825 is still higher than $4K.

well helpme, and i know your are in jersey. it's not so much to be right or wrong for ME...it's that we were able to resolve our situation easier in florida than opting for filing nj or federally while a resident of nj.

i didn't intermingle the two as i attempted to explain, but as noted debee did perfectly. sorry i wasn't able to articulate is as well!

[tobee43]

@helpmeout

Perhaps tobee43 is referring to the Supplemental Federal Exemptions in her post? They are used in conjunction WITH state exemptions and protect such things as retirement benefits, survivor's benefits, etc.

http://www.bankruptcyinformation.com/exempt-supp.htm

thank you, yes, correct. i should have just said that.

[tobee43]

I don't know why there is confusion on Florida. In Florida, you do get to use the supplemental federal exemptions. ALL states get the supplemental exemptions. This is enumerated in 11 USC 522 quite clearly. It's only those exemptions in 11 USC 522(d) from which States may "opt out".

The so-called "supplemental exemptions" (those not in 11 USC 522(d)) are to cover certain benefit/retirement plans and some other special cases.

thanks jb for the clarification!

[justbroke]

I don't know why there is confusion on Florida. In Florida, you do get to use the supplemental federal exemptions. ALL states get the supplemental exemptions. This is enumerated in 11 USC 522 quite clearly. It's only those exemptions in 11 USC 522(d) from which States may "opt out".

The so-called "supplemental exemptions" (those not in 11 USC 522(d)) are to cover certain benefit/retirement plans and some other special cases.

[helpmeout]

Nope, nothing about the Federal Homestead exemption there.

You are correct that one can not use the Federal exemption set in FL - but you can use the Supplemental Federal Exemptions in FL if you need to protect any of the assets that they cover.

Uh, no you can't. Did you miss reading this part of your link:

If you live in a state where you may substitute the federal exemptions

If you click on the link, it lists the states that you can do this in. Florida isn't listed. In other words, you can't use any type of federal exemptions in Florida, supplemental or otherwise. Either way, the Federal Homestead exemption or the wildcard from not using it can't be used either way. As was implied by a poster.

[ValleYum]

Could be. But nowhere in there does it say that any part of the Federal Homestead exemption can be used when using State Exemptions. Either way, Florida does not allow the use of Federal Exemptions.

Nope, nothing about the Federal Homestead exemption there.

You are correct that one can not use the Federal exemption set in FL - but you can use the Supplemental Federal Exemptions in FL if you need to protect any of the assets that they cover.

[justbroke]

Debee has summed it up exactly how the law stands. If you move, you lose Florida exemptions, but may actually be able to get the "fallback" Federal Exemptions!

[helpmeout]

@helpmeout

Perhaps tobee43 is referring to the Supplemental Federal Exemptions in her post? They are used in conjunction WITH state exemptions and protect such things as retirement benefits, survivor's benefits, etc.

http://www.bankruptcyinformation.com/exempt-supp.htm

Could be. But nowhere in there does it say that any part of the Federal Homestead exemption can be used when using State Exemptions. Either way, Florida does not allow the use of Federal Exemptions.

[ValleYum]

@helpmeout

Perhaps tobee43 is referring to the Supplemental Federal Exemptions in her post? They are used in conjunction WITH state exemptions and protect such things as retirement benefits, survivor's benefits, etc.

http://www.bankruptcyinformation.com/exempt-supp.htm

[debee]

If OP moves to TN, she can file bk there 91 days into her residency. (Which she can hasten to establish via voter registration, driver's, etc.)

She can't use TN exemptions for a couple years though, so she would need to use the exemptions of the state where she resided for the most of the 180 day period that ended two years before her filing date.

So if she was in FL for most of that time, FL would be her state.

However since FL has a residency requirement (and OP will forfeit that by moving and establishing her residency in TN), she will be able to use the Federal exemption amount of $10,825 that helpmeout mentions in her post.

[helpmeout]

i know in our case...if you use the state exemptions in any state, you can also claim certain exemptions set by federal law as well as those listed in the federal nonbankruptcy exemptions. i know that's confusing.

We've had this argument before. You are just as wrong now as you were then.

You can ONLY use Federal Exemptions in states that ALLOW IT. NJ does, Florida does not. Many of the state exemptions may be similar or the same as the Federal Exemptions, but they are still considered the state's exemptions.

You cannot intermingle the two. If the state exemptions does not have a homestead exemption and does not allow the use of Federal exemptions (to be clear, it is either/or not both like you are implying), then there is no homestead exemption. Period. If the state that does not allow the choice of using federal exemptions and does not allow the conversion of any unused homestead exemptions to a wildcard, then you don't get to use the federal homestead exemption as a wildcard. Like you implied.

Links have been posted, especially in regards to Florida, that prove that one cannot use the federal exemptions in states that do not allow it.

As I stated before, and got from the Federal Exemptions list, up to $10,825 of the unused Federal Homestead exemption can be used as a wildcard. But ONLY if you are using Federal Exemptions and ONLY in states that allow the choice. If you go with the State's Exemptions in state's that allow the choice, you forfeit the ability to convert the unused $10,825 portion of the homestead exemption to a wildcard.

And $10,825 is still higher than $4K.

[tobee43]

i know in our case...if you use the state exemptions in any state, you can also claim certain exemptions set by federal law as well as those listed in the federal nonbankruptcy exemptions. i know that's confusing.

i really know only of several states have created a “wildcard,” which is an exemption that you can apply to any property where the federal restricts the liminations of where is can be applied...i could be incorrect. example, if you own a car in connecticut worth $2,500 and the exemption for motor vehicles is $1,500, you can use the $1,000 the state allows as a wildcard to make up the difference. and this particular type of wildcard also allows one to apply the amount to be used to exempt property that isn’t listed as an exemption, such as a piece of art. value of the wildcard, like other exemption amounts, varies from state to state.

"States where you have the choice of using either the federal exemptions or the state exemptions (you never get to use both at the same time) are: Arkansas, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin.

Federal exemptions differ from state exemptions and state exemptions vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. For instance, the maximum exemption for a car in Florida is $1,000, while in Texas it can be up to $30,000. In some states, a debtor’s residence can never be taken, no matter how valuable it is, while in others the protected value is less than $10,000. This means that how much you lose to creditors or have to give up when you file for bankruptcy depends largely on where you live."


i know for us, as it worke out we were far better not staying in nj using the federal or state, but were better off in florida since we needed to apply that wildcard exempt allocation in a certain way, where ...and i think this is the funtumental difference about this wildcard... again, and again i could be wrong...you can apply it anywhere. all i know is we worked it both ways actually three ways...florida, nj and federal and for us florida was in our personal best interest.


i'll list the wildcard for the Federal and how and where it can be applied:


Using the Wildcard Exemption in your U.S. federal bankruptcy case:
.
(1) The debtor’s aggregate interest, not to exceed $21,625 in value, in real property or personal property that the debtor or a dependent of the debtor uses as a residence, in a cooperative that owns property that the debtor or a dependent of the debtor uses as a residence, or in a burial plot for the debtor or a dependent of the debtor.

(2) The debtor’s interest, not to exceed $3,450 in value, in one motor vehicle.

(3) The debtor’s interest, not to exceed $550 in value in any particular item or $11,525 in aggregate value, in household furnishings, household goods, wearing apparel, appliances, books, animals, crops, or musical instruments, that are held primarily for the personal, family, or household use of the debtor or a dependent of the debtor.

(4) The debtor’s aggregate interest, not to exceed $1,450 in value, in jewelry held primarily for the personal, family, or household use of the debtor or a dependent of the debtor.

(5) The debtor’s aggregate interest in any property, not to exceed in value $1,150 plus up to $10,825 of any unused amount of the exemption provided under paragraph (1) of this subsection.

(6) The debtor’s aggregate interest, not to exceed $2,175 in value, in any implements, professional books, or tools, of the trade of the debtor or the trade of a dependent of the debtor.

(7) Any unmatured life insurance contract owned by the debtor, other than a credit life insurance contract.

(8) The debtor’s aggregate interest, not to exceed in value $11,525 less any amount of property of the estate transferred in the manner specified in section 542(d) of this title, in any accrued dividend or interest under, or loan value of, any unmatured life insurance contract owned by the debtor under which the insured is the debtor or an individual of whom the debtor is a dependent.

(9) Professionally prescribed health aids for the debtor or a dependent of the debtor.

(10) The debtor’s right to receive–

(A) a social security benefit, unemployment compensation, or a local public assistance benefit;

(B) a veterans’ benefit;

(C) a disability, illness, or unemployment benefit;

(D) alimony, support, or separate maintenance, to the extent reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and any dependent of the debtor;

(E) a payment under a stock bonus, pension, profitsharing, annuity, or similar plan or contract on account of illness, disability, death, age, or length of service, to the extent reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and any dependent of the debtor, unless–

(i) such plan or contract was established by or under the auspices of an insider that employed the debtor at the time the debtor’s rights under such plan or contract arose;

(ii) such payment is on account of age or length of service; and

(iii) such plan or contract does not qualify under section 401(a), 403(a), 403(b), or 408 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.

(11) The debtor’s right to receive, or property that is traceable to–

(A) an award under a crime victim’s reparation law;

(B) a payment on account of the wrongful death of an individual of whom the debtor was a dependent, to the extent reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and any dependent of the debtor;

(C) a payment under a life insurance contract that insured the life of an individual of whom the debtor was a dependent on the date of such individual’s death, to the extent reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and any dependent of the debtor;

(D) a payment, not to exceed $21,625, on account of personal bodily injury, not including pain and suffering or compensation for actual pecuniary loss, of the debtor or an individual of whom the debtor is a dependent; or

(E) a payment in compensation of loss of future earnings of the debtor or an individual of whom the debtor is or was a dependent, to the extent reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and any dependent of the debtor.

(12) Retirement funds to the extent that those funds are in a fund or account that is exempt from taxation under section 401, 403, 408, 408A, 414, 457, or 501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.

[helpmeout]

right, if we had attempted to file prior to establishing our residency in florida, (which was 2 years) we would have had to go federal. our problem was we had NO home........to stead....LOL!!! we needed that "personal" wildcard which was far more attractive to us since we surrendered our home we certainly couldn't use it as an exemption.

The federal exemptions allow $10,825 of unused homestead exemption as a wildcard. That's higher than the $4k exemption in Florida.

[tobee43]

Not that this is an option in Florida as that state does not allow the choice between choosing either the federal exemptions or the state's exemptions, but the federal exemptions do allow you to use a portion of the homestead exemption as a wildcard (I believe that it is higher than $4K). If Tennessee allows you to use federal exemptions, it really shouldn't matter when you move, it would just be a question of how long you need to live in Tennessee (or whatever state you move to) to establish residency. A consult with a BK attorney should be able to answer some of your questions regarding moving.

right, if we had attempted to file prior to establishing our residency in florida, (which was 2 years) we would have had to go federal. our problem was we had NO home........to stead....LOL!!! we needed that "personal" wildcard which was far more attractive to us since we surrendered our home we certainly couldn't use it as an exemption.